ebay madness re: vinyl

[mjazzg]

2 hours ago, clifford_thornton said:

Iconic album in its first state in top condition... those with deep pockets will always drive the market. 

This is it.

First editions in many other art fields command the highest prices be that fine art prints, ceramics, first edition books etc. Why should recorded music be any different?

If people want to pay to own the "original" in pristine condition and they can afford to do so then so be it and good luck to them, it's their money.

I'd hazard a guess that some of them do play the LPs rather than hang them on the wall but even if they don't and only keep them as an artefact I can't get upset about that either. It's a lovely thing to own.

Some of these collectors may equally regard having at least two box sets containing the same version of the album on the same format as a bit odd, after all you can only play one at a time.

Edited January 28 by mjazzg

[medjuck]

IIRC (and I often don't) the titles of All Blues and Flamenco Sketches were mis identified on the first pressings. 

[clifford_thornton]

yeah, the title reversal is right from what I remember too.

I certainly can't afford those kinds of prices. But obviously some people can... I think they are a bit like rare books, and the rare book market at least used to be quite lucrative, much moreso than LPs. But I've heard that it's cooled in recent years, so maybe vinyl is something like a replacement. Time will tell. I can think of just a few records that command five-figure sums, and many more books that will do the same.

[Daniel A]

18 hours ago, Holy Ghost said:

Atlantic is kind of the same to me. I can't tell the difference between a mid-sixties fan copy versus a mid-seventies fan copy. 

I thought they were green/blue (for stereo releases) up to ~1969, and then green/red (from Hubert Laws "Laws Cause" and onwards), excepting Japanese reissues which often used original label layout.

 

 

 

Edited January 28 by Daniel A

[clifford_thornton]

yeah, that's from LJC, right? Looks accurate to me.

[Daniel A]

2 hours ago, clifford_thornton said:

yeah, that's from LJC, right? Looks accurate to me.

Yes, it is. But Harald Hult of Andra Jazz taught me this, pre-internet. 🙂

[Holy Ghost]

22 hours ago, Daniel A said:

I thought they were green/blue (for stereo releases) up to ~1969, and then green/red (from Hubert Laws "Laws Cause" and onwards), excepting Japanese reissues which often used original label layout.

 

 

This is pretty cool. If I was going to seriously start collecting Atlantic's, I would definitely need that cheat sheet!

 

[corto maltese]

On 1/28/2025 at 5:51 PM, mjazzg said:

This is it.

First editions in many other art fields command the highest prices be that fine art prints, ceramics, first edition books etc. Why should recorded music be any different?

If people want to pay to own the "original" in pristine condition and they can afford to do so then so be it and good luck to them, it's their money.

I'd hazard a guess that some of them do play the LPs rather than hang them on the wall but even if they don't and only keep them as an artefact I can't get upset about that either. It's a lovely thing to own.

Some of these collectors may equally regard having at least two box sets containing the same version of the album on the same format as a bit odd, after all you can only play one at a time.

Well said.

[clifford_thornton]

On 1/29/2025 at 12:10 AM, Daniel A said:

Yes, it is. But Harald Hult of Andra Jazz taught me this, pre-internet. 🙂

Harald!

[rostasi]

This be cRaZy! I've got three copies of this album.

[mjazzg]

34 minutes ago, rostasi said:

This be cRaZy! I've got three copies of this album.

Want to sell one...at a less crazy price of course!

[colinmce]

54 minutes ago, rostasi said:

This be cRaZy! I've got three copies of this album.

Just don't let those auction house ghouls ever get ahold of your collection!

[rostasi]

I'm kinda inclined to start dropping batches off at the radio station,
but I wish the premises looked more secure (and, maybe, larger?).
Still, "Josey Records" is in my eyesight as well. After our house
remodel in '19, I'm actually unable to find most specific albums.

[JSngry]

6 hours ago, rostasi said:

This be cRaZy! I've got three copies of this album.

Peaches had them by "the hundreds"  in their cutout racks back in the day. Seemed like the more time passed, the more mangled they got!

[rostasi]

... and no way would you think back then that they'd fetch these prices.
Actually, they're selling between $300-400, but sellers start high.

[clifford_thornton]

The Japanese pressing is rarer, especially with the obi.

[Big Beat Steve]

On 7/5/2025 at 9:05 PM, clifford_thornton said:

The Japanese pressing is rarer, especially with the obi.

Which reminds me of another question that probably has been dealt with here before, but still ... 

What's so special about these OBI strips and where's their interest enough to (apparently) often make its presence a make-or-break criterion in the sale of Japanese pressings? After all it's just a colored strip of wraparound paper with mostly "unitelligible foreign hieroglyphs"  on it that adds ... well .. WHAT exactly to the enjoyment of either the music on the LP or the glossy, well-reproduced facsimile cover of the typical Japanese pressing? 
What do they do to REALLY enhance the LP itself? After all it is obvious to anyone from the fine print that we're in the presence of a Japanese pressing.  😕
When in place they detract from the enjoyment of the cover art IMO, and when put inside the sleeve so they are out of the way some will certainly groan and consider them devalued because the OBIs then have to be folded and creased to put then inside the sleeve ...

I realize us collectors are a quirky breed who mostly have their own quirks about what details they value higher in their personal collections (I for one, for example, would place extra value - though not too much so - on a cover that has a record shop sticker or stamp from a long-defunct "cult" record shop from way back in the day ... And no doubt others would favor other details. Maybe original rice paper inner sleeves, particularly with the label imprint of the  record company ... or inner sleeves with thumbnail pics as adverts for then-current LPs from the label's catalog (all of which I'd understand and sort of sympathize with) ... or whatever ...

But THIS - the OBIs? Seems to me that some time a couple of decades ago someone out there launched a mass trend trendy enough for all too many to feel compelled to hop on the bandwagon ... 

Edited July 7 by Big Beat Steve

[Dub Modal]

If you hold the obi up to your ear you can hear the ocean. 

[mjazzg]

16 minutes ago, Dub Modal said:

If you hold the obi up to your ear you can hear the ocean. 

🤣

[mjazzg]

3 hours ago, Big Beat Steve said:

Which reminds me of another question that probably has been dealt with here before, but still ... 

What's so special about these OBI strips and where's their interest enough to (apparently) often make its presence a make-or-break criterion in the sale of Japanese pressings? After all it's just a colored strip of wraparound paper with mostly "unitelligible foreign hieroglyphs"  on it that adds ... well .. WHAT exactly to the enjoyment of either the music on the LP or the glossy, well-reproduced facsimile cover of the typical Japanese pressing? 
What do they do to REALLY enhance the LP itself? After all it is obvious to anyone from the fine print that we're in the presence of a Japanese pressing.  😕
When in place they detract from the enjoyment of the cover art IMO, and when put inside the sleeve so they are out of the way some will certainly groan and consider them devalued because the OBIs then have to be folded and creased to put then inside the sleeve ...

I realize us collectors are a quirky breed who mostly have their own quirks about what details they value higher in their personal collections (I for one, for example, would place extra value - though not too much so - on a cover that has a record shop sticker or stamp from a long-defunct "cult" record shop from way back in the day ... And no doubt others would favor other details. Maybe original rice paper inner sleeves, particularly with the label imprint of the  record company ... or inner sleeves with thumbnail pics as adverts for then-current LPs from the label's catalog (all of which I'd understand and sort of sympathize with) ... or whatever ...

But THIS - the OBIs? Seems to me that some time a couple of decades ago someone out there launched a mass trend trendy enough for all too many to feel compelled to hop on the bandwagon ... 

Quite simply I think it's only the desire to have the LP/cover in as close a condition as when originally issued. 

The Obi is part of the original artifact so collectors like to have them. I see no difference between desiring that as to desiring original inner sleeves, inserts etc. 

And yes, this isn't about the music (cue that chorus) it's about the complete artifact in as close a condition as when originally issued as possible.

Edited July 7 by mjazzg

[Royal Oak]

I threw my Blue Note Connoisseur CD OBI strips out, when I should have saved them and sent them off for a Blue Note watch, or whatever the prize was. 

[clifford_thornton]

5 hours ago, mjazzg said:

Quite simply I think it's only the desire to have the LP/cover in as close a condition as when originally issued. 

The Obi is part of the original artifact so collectors like to have them. I see no difference between desiring that as to desiring original inner sleeves, inserts etc. 

And yes, this isn't about the music (cue that chorus) it's about the complete artifact in as close a condition as when originally issued as possible.

Pretty much the right answer.

Also some records have varying obi colors/texts for the same JP issue… collect them all!

[T.D.]

I recall a recent discogs writeup on obis:

https://www.discogs.com/digs/features/the-obi-strip-how-a-japanese-paper-band-became-a-collectors-grail/

Not that informative...conclusion seems to be more or less "just because"...but there is a good quote:

To open a Japanese pressing from the 1970s or 80s and find its obi intact is to encounter a pristine, somewhat mythic art object. Because they weren’t glued down, they were easily lost, damaged, or discarded, particularly by overseas buyers that didn’t read Japanese or didn’t know better. These are records that someone cared enough not to throw away and understood might one day matter. They add a layer of aesthetic completeness, and to some, an almost ceremonial sense of care and preservation.

[clifford_thornton]

A lot of people, Japanese buyers included, threw them away. However, they've since become perceived as part of the artwork. As long as the insert is present I can live without an obi, but if by chance a record I buy has one, it's a nice bonus.

[Big Beat Steve]

Thanks, everyone, for your input. Visibly a case of "to each his own" (quirk). 
I can see that it is nice to have the insert with the Japanese pressing, and whenever they were still present I of course kept these in the sleeves of mine (if only for reference to the lineup and recording date that often weren't specified explicitly on the original covers reproduced faithfully (warts and gaps and all) on the JPs. (And yes, the thumbnails of other LPs available are instructive and sometimes fun too.)

But this, now ... 

10 hours ago, T.D. said:

To open a Japanese pressing from the 1970s or 80s and find its obi intact is to encounter a pristine, somewhat mythic art object. Because they weren’t glued down, they were easily lost, damaged, or discarded, particularly by overseas buyers that didn’t read Japanese or didn’t know better. These are records that someone cared enough not to throw away and understood might one day matter. They add a layer of aesthetic completeness, and to some, an almost ceremonial sense of care and preservation.

... isn't this a bit of over the top? Mythic art object? Aesthetic completeness? Though I realize tastes and approaches do differ. Yet to me they aren't really part of the cover artwork either. At least not on facsimile reissues (which is all I have in the way of Japanese pressings). After all they were never present on the US originals so accurately reproduced for reissue in Japan. In fact it is for this reason I at first found they actually detracted from the original artwork. 
But collectors ARE a strange breed. I remember on one occasion at our annual local record clearance sale day there cropped up a whole bunch of some visibly new (but slightly water-damaged) original late 50s copies of some (fairly unimportant) Mexican combo on the (U.S.) HIFI label. I did buy two copies of them (at 1 EUR each), though, because they all had their unopened original plastic inner sleeve with all the HIFI label imprint running round the entire cirumference - just to salvage these inner sleeves and put them inside the covers of the HIFIJAZZ LPs (Richie Kamuca a.o.) I have on my shelves. As a sort of final touch of orignality ...