Which Box Sets do You Regret Buying, and Why?

[Ken Dryden]

I have no use for false starts and breakdowns being included in the name of completeness. 
 

[mjzee]

I can't believe I own 4 Bill Evans boxes, because I don't even like the guy's music.  I guess with each box I thought "OK, maybe I'll like this phase of his career," but nope.  I have the Fantasy box, the WB "Turn Out The Light" box, the Verve box, and "The Secret Sessions."  I especially regret the last one because, in addition to the music not interesting me, the sound quality's pretty bad.

I often think of box sets as a process - you get to hear a musician's career and concept evolve; it's part history, part evolving tastes, part evolving technique, part maturing and getting older, part hearing how different producers affect a musician's sound.  So at the end of a box set, I feel like I learned a lot about a musician's work, almost like reading a biography, and so it's rewarding even if I don't feel like listening to it again.  After all, how often do we reread books?  Sometimes, but not often.

9 hours ago, Ken Dryden said:

I have no use for false starts and breakdowns being included in the name of completeness. 

Agreed.

[Ken Dryden]

The Evans Verve set is the worst of the lot, due to the ridiculous packaging and number of false starts and breakdowns that could be easily omitted. I like alternate takes but order them at the end of the CD following the original album.

The Secret Sessions consists of audience recordings, good playing but poor sound. At least the taper provided the tapes to a legit label.

[sidewinder]

53 minutes ago, Ken Dryden said:

The Evans Verve set is the worst of the lot, due to the ridiculous packaging and number of false starts and breakdowns that could be easily omitted. I like alternate takes but order them at the end of the CD following the original album.

The Secret Sessions consists of audience recordings, good playing but poor sound. At least the taper provided the tapes to a legit label.

My Evans Verve is in that ‘cheapo’ Italian Verve version. Budget packaging but at least it doesn’t rust. Some of the CDs were scuffed though, not impressed with that.

The ‘Secret Sessions’ is quite fascinating in small doses but the sonics are up there with Mosaics Benedetti Bird Box !

[ASNL77]

I have every single Mosaic box set including the Select sets but there are some I really did not need to buy recently. The latest Hubbard falls in that category. There isn’t anything I don’t own on vinyl in this set but as I have every single Mosaic set…. I couldn’t help myself pulling the trigger. At least i can take pride in supporting the great company Mosaic is but with the current exchange rate, it is completely u justified. Oh well… 

[sidewinder]

47 minutes ago, ASNL77 said:

I have every single Mosaic box set including the Select sets but there are some I really did not need to buy recently. The latest Hubbard falls in that category. There isn’t anything I don’t own on vinyl in this set but as I have every single Mosaic set…. I couldn’t help myself pulling the trigger. At least i can take pride in supporting the great company Mosaic is but with the current exchange rate, it is completely u justified. Oh well… 

Welcome back !

The limiting factor with Mosaics is if you are unable to get through your front door due to space taken up. A real issue for us UK residents. 

The Hubbard set is great. There was nothing new that I didn’t have elsewhere but It is so good to have the music in such excellent sound in one collection. They have done Mr Hubbard proud !

With regard to the exchange rate - it can only get worse..

Edited October 16, 2022 by sidewinder

[ASNL77]

17 minutes ago, sidewinder said:

Welcome back !

The limiting factor with Mosaics is if you are unable to get through your front door due to space taken up. A real issue for us UK residents. 

The Hubbard set is great. There was nothing new that I didn’t have elsewhere but It is so good to have the music in such excellent sound in one collection. They have done Mr Hubbard proud !

With regard to the exchange rate - it can only get worse..

Thank you very much.

I agree. They have done a cracking job on this one and the booklet is as good as ever. I  am glad to support Mosaic anyway. 

 I had to buy it from Mosaic as it doesn’t look like Jazz Messengers in Spain have got it. Anyway, even when buying from Spain we now have to pay for custom charges. I may get the Classic Black and White Jazz Sessions and have it sent to my French address this time. It’s become so complicated to buy music from outside the UK.
 

Things are not looking good for the pound in the short term. It’s always a close call between Mosaic and Jazz Messengers. I still can’t tell which option is the more cost efficient. 

Edited October 16, 2022 by ASNL77

[JSngry]

I do not regret not buying The Four Freshmen set. And I am kinda ok not picking up the Bobby Hackett, although if a really cheap deal comes along, maybe. Same with the Teagarden Roulette.

But that Four Freeman thing, that's why I will never own every Mosaic set, ever 

[sidewinder]

JazzMessengers did have the Hubbard a few weeks ago - that’s where I got mine. Must have sold out quick but no doubt it will be back. Hear what you say about the damn customs charges and ‘processing fee’. Quite a ding when the latest package arrived.

[Ken Dryden]

2 minutes ago, JSngry said:

I do not regret not buying The Four Freshmen set. And I am kinda ok not picking up the Bobby Hackett, although if a really cheap deal comes along, maybe. Same with the Teagarden Roulette.

But that Four Freeman thing, that's why I will never own every Mosaic set, ever 

Ditto, they are of no interest to me.

[JSngry]

I really like both Hackett and Teagarden, but that specific material was not of particularly compelling for me. 

[Brad]

I purchased Hackett cheaply but not one of my faves. I will probably try to sell it. I have a few Mosaic boxes that are taking up space. 

[Big Beat Steve]

On 15.10.2022 at 4:00 AM, JSngry said:

But from the typical consumer standpoint... most people go to movies, not theatre. And there's a reason why most rehearsals are not open to the public. Maybe they should be, but they aren't. Mingus was the most noble of exceptions. And he was one splicing motherfucker when it came to records.

Re- false starts, etc. The above reminds me of that Sonny Boy Williamson Chess compilation LP (re)issued in 70s that had one lengthy track with the small print "This track not suitable for airplay" on the back cover - because the "length" of the lengthy track for some reason was made up of a false start and studio chatter and you can hear one apparently disgusted Sonny Boy at one point exclaim "motherfucker" and something like "li'l bitch" or so ... Oh those poor AM radio listener souls confronted with those oh so lewd words in - of all eras - the 70s! What shocks the execs must have dreaded ...

 

On 14.10.2022 at 9:54 PM, Teasing the Korean said:

Exactly.  If they are going to include the alternates, the least that they could do is break them up so they are not all in a row.  For example, create alternate album using one alternate take of each tune.

I think the default should be to create a cohesive listening experience.  Placing all of the alternates in chronological order IMO should fall to the listener and not the producer.

Yes, that would be a good idea. Even on single items such as some of those on the Circle label, for instance.
Scholarly study is all very well, but is this really what the majority even of diehard jazz collectors does on EVERY listen, even with Bird? Doing one part of the box set with the master takes and then the other part with runs of the alternates, or in fact several runs with alternates (as long as they last, as not all of them have survived with the same number of alternate takes), etc. would be more customer-friendly. It would really be interesting to see a box set with CD1 made up of "master takes", CD2 with "#1 alternates", CD3 with "#2 alternates", and so on. That might actually be fun, with maybe the music becoming more "raggedy" from set to set! Though I don't think it will ever happen anywhere, as of course the scholar fraternity will probably complain.

Edited October 17, 2022 by Big Beat Steve

[colinmce]

I love the Hackett and both Teagarden sets, but I can see why that might not be everyone's cup; luckily both are on the smaller end. I did have the Johnny Mercer Select years ago, and I recall liking it. I was thinking about re-buying it recently and gave it a listen on Spotify .... absolutely dreadful. I definitely would have regretted that. 

[Dub Modal]

On 10/16/2022 at 11:37 PM, mjzee said:

I can't believe I own 4 Bill Evans boxes, because I don't even like the guy's music.  I guess with each box I thought "OK, maybe I'll like this phase of his career," but nope.  I have the Fantasy box, the WB "Turn Out The Light" box, the Verve box, and "The Secret Sessions."  I especially regret the last one because, in addition to the music not interesting me, the sound quality's pretty bad.

I often think of box sets as a process - you get to hear a musician's career and concept evolve; it's part history, part evolving tastes, part evolving technique, part maturing and getting older, part hearing how different producers affect a musician's sound.  So at the end of a box set, I feel like I learned a lot about a musician's work, almost like reading a biography, and so it's rewarding even if I don't feel like listening to it again.  After all, how often do we reread books?  Sometimes, but not often.

Agreed.

I bought all my Evans albums early on when starting to listen to jazz and for whatever reason I can hardly listen to them now. One of the exceptions is the material with Shelly Manne. The only box I got was the Fantasy one and thankfully at a hefty discount. I won’t be buying anymore in the near future. 

[mjzee]

3 hours ago, Dub Modal said:

The only box I got was the Fantasy one

The disc I really like is the Marian McPartland "Piano Jazz" show.  Also kinda like the dates with horns and guitar, but more for the horns and guitar.  I got the feeling that, early on in his career, his manager saw that the trio format (and, to a lesser extent, solo performances) was the gravy train, and so kept him in that mold.

[GA Russell]

My interest in Evans has always been primarily the Riverside material.

I picked up the European box of Riverside/Milestone albums, and have always been pleased with it.

On 10/17/2022 at 6:09 AM, Big Beat Steve said:

Doing one part of the box set with the master takes and then the other part with runs of the alternates, or in fact several runs with alternates (as long as they last, as not all of them have survived with the same number of alternate takes), etc. would be more customer-friendly. 

One of my favorite sets was issued by Universal, I think in the late '80s.  It was Chet Baker's complete Barclay recordings.

It was called Chet in Paris, and each of the four CDs was sold separately.  The first three CDs were the masters, and the fourth was made up of alternates.

It would suit me if everybody put the alternates on a separate CD.

[jlhoots]

Paul Dunmall 50 CD set. Although some is very good, I've never gotten through the whole thing. In addition the packaging was suspect from a storage point of view.

Edited October 19, 2022 by jlhoots

[Dub Modal]

16 hours ago, mjzee said:

The disc I really like is the Marian McPartland "Piano Jazz" show.  Also kinda like the dates with horns and guitar, but more for the horns and guitar.  I got the feeling that, early on in his career, his manager saw that the trio format (and, to a lesser extent, solo performances) was the gravy train, and so kept him in that mold.

From what I remember in his interviews, Evans seemed to prefer the trio setting as well. Seemed like he was always searching for that mind-meld that he and LaFaro had, and referenced trio settings as the only place he could really find that. I don't know a lot about it all, but I think LaFaro really pushed him both while playing and in life. Had LaFaro lived, he may have been successful in getting Evans off the junk and who knows what would've ended up happening at that point. 

[Bluesnik]

22 hours ago, GA Russell said:

It was called Chet in Paris, and each of the four CDs was sold separately.

I remember a boxset called Chet in Paris, but not as far back as the late 80s. More like the mid 2000s. And it was released by Universal. So maybe it was based on that old boxset. Or was a reissue.

Edited October 20, 2022 by Bluesnik

[mikeweil]

Another one I remember was a cheap Italian multiple LP box set with Bix Beiderbecke rexordings - pretty comprehensive, but awful cheap sound. I sold it along with a batch of other vinyl.

[Face of the Bass]

I like the Evans Verve set. I like the music, I like the packaging even. I like the rust. I've never had any problem with anything interfering with the music on that set. 

The packaging that I really don't like is Mosaic. The cookie cutter approach does a real disservice to the music. I'd rather see a company go for something and try to make a statement with the packaging than to just use the same formula over and over again.

One reason I'm glad that Mosaic has never done a Sun Ra set is that their boring packaging would be a complete disservice to Sun Ra's vision. 

Edited October 20, 2022 by Face of the Bass

[felser]

I bought the Euro version of the Evans set and sold the rustbox.

[romualdo]

On 16/10/2022 at 7:01 AM, JSngry said:

I really like both Hackett and Teagarden, but that specific material was not of particularly compelling for me. 

I'm currently digitalising (what I don't already have on CD) the three Mosaic Commodore boxes (66 LPs) - done about thirty hours so far

Only did Hackett & Teagarden this week - great stuff there!

[Big Beat Steve]

10 hours ago, mikeweil said:

Another one I remember was a cheap Italian multiple LP box set with Bix Beiderbecke rexordings - pretty comprehensive, but awful cheap sound. I sold it along with a batch of other vinyl.

The "Bixology" series on the Joker budget label. I remember that one. I held off buying that Bix record series back then because even though they were budget-priced the sheer amount of records added up (more than what I wanted to shell out for that budget series - and as for fidelity, the NORK LP on Joker I had bought indeed had rather poor sound beyond what you can expect from reissues of acoustic-era recordings anyway - so I was warned).

Several years ago I finally took the plunge, though (just for completeness sake), when a NM copy of this box set came up in a local record store sales bin. 10 EUR for a 14-LP box is no big outlay.
Over time I had bought a couple of vinyl reissues of Bix recordings on "official" labels (CBS-affiliated), and after an aural comparison of a couple of identical tunes on both vinyls I did not notice any significant sonic difference. Recent digital remastering may make a larger difference (as in the case of those relatively recent Louis Armstrong remasterings) but apparently not so in the vinyl era.