Charles Mingus Complete 1970s Atlantic box set

[jazzbo]

If I could just have one Mingus box set I think it would be the Debut--such varied material, great music.

Luckily, I can have all the Mingus box sets. A better situation.

[BFrank]

Prime Day deal on this box: 35% off ($51.96)

[tranemonk]

On 7/12/2023 at 1:05 AM, BFrank said:

Prime Day deal on this box: 35% off ($51.96)

The sale is still going on today after Prime Day.. I might have to grab this one at this price...

[Ken Dryden]

The Eric Dolphy collaborations are my favorites in the Mingus discography. 

 

[BFrank]

15 hours ago, tranemonk said:

The sale is still going on today after Prime Day.. I might have to grab this one at this price...

Mine arrived already 👍

[Stompin at the Savoy]

This arrived today finally from the UK.  The production is nice, with facsimile album covers.  The text of the original album notes on the back covers of the albums is absurdly small, esp for an oldster like me but the printing and paper are very good quality and photos I took of the covers are legible and clear.  The little booklet offers new liner notes by Andrew Homzy.  The print is not as tiny as the covers but as usual I photographed the booklet so I can read it without strain. The sound is remarkably good.  Going to be a 70's Mingus weekend. 

Edited July 15, 2023 by Stompin at the Savoy

[srellek]

On 4/19/2023 at 5:40 PM, miles65 said:

'Big Alice' and 'The Call' on the CD version are not unissued they are on the Rhino CD version of 'Mingus Moves'. 'Music for Todo Mondo' is the only unissued take on the CD version. 

On the CD 'Cumbia & Jazz Fusion' the 2 takes of Wedding March/Slow Waltz are missing on both the LP and CD version. They are on the Rhino CD issued in 1994.

A resounding NO from me for this set.

I think the version of "Big Alice [take 1]" on the new CD set might be a different take than the one that appears on the Rhino Mingus Moves CD, which includes a trumpet solo from 1:06 - 2:01.

[sidewinder]

A bit late but I've gone for a copy of the LP version of this set. Only have 'Moves' on LP and the Changes 1 and 2 on old CDs so it will be worth it. Have to say that I never originally bought 'Cumbia..' onwards due to the widespread negative reviews at the time. In hindsight, a mistake.

Should be very good Xmas listening along with the Don Byas set !  This era of Charles Mingus was long overdue a decent reissue.

It will be nice to read the booklet in comfortable size without a magnifying glass as well.

Edited December 22, 2023 by sidewinder

[Gheorghe]

9 minutes ago, sidewinder said:

A bit late but I've gone for a copy of the LP version of this set. Only have 'Moves' on LP and the Changes 1 and 2 on old CDs so it will be worth it. Have to say that I never originally bought 'Cumbia..' onwards due to the widespread negative reviews at the time. In hindsight, a mistake.

Should be very good Xmas listening along with the Don Byas set !  This era of Charles Mingus was long overdue a decent reissue.

It will be nice to read the booklet in comfortable size without a magnifying glass as well.

I was not aware of negative reviews and I even think, that I heard the long suite Cumbia live BEFORE it was in the record shops. Mingus himself announced it as a "Movie score we just had recorded". 

Same with "Three or Four Shades of the Blues" . Well again, I have heard live the title tune, also a kind of suite, but there was no guitars and no two basses." Noddin´ Ya Head Blues" also was performed, but much faster than on the record.  

Both albums reflected what Minguts actually performed in those days, but yeah, they are somehow overproduced. 
I first was reluctant when I saw the cover of "Three or Four Shades", with all them little fotos of the musicians, and see´n a white young hippie (Corryell) and a white old man (Rowles) didn´t really encourage me. Not that I wouldn´t have dug young hippies (I also had even longer hair at that time) or old gentlemen, I was used to other images of Mingus-Musicians. 

But the review of "Three or Four Shades of the Blues" in the important magazine "JazzPodium" was positive, even if the only "negative" remark was that it is not as deep or good as "Black Saint and Sinner Lady". 
Since sure I love "Black Saint and...." it wouldn´t be my first choice Mingus album anyway, so I was content to read a good review and bought the record. 

Too bad that the following tour, planned to promote that album, was chancelled because I was prepared to take the album to the concert to get it signed from the Master Himself. 

[sidewinder]

Jogging my memory I remember listening a lot at the time to the earlier Mingus Atlantics so some of these later ones passed me by. Lukewarm reviews in some of the UK jazz press didn't help.

Never saw Mingus live (too young!) but I did catch an early Mingus Dynasty with Pullen, Adams, Knepper and Richmond. I think Aladar Pege was on bass.

Edited December 22, 2023 by sidewinder

[mikeweil]

On 12/22/2023 at 11:30 AM, sidewinder said:

Never saw Mingus live (too young!) .......

I was old enough but was late due to traffic convulsions and couldn't get in the club. George Adams was wailing while we had to leave.

[felser]

On 12/22/2023 at 5:13 AM, Gheorghe said:

it is not as deep or good as "Black Saint and Sinner Lady". 
 

Neither is almost everything else everyone's ever recorded.  'The Black Saint and the Sinner Lady' is a desert island disc for me.

[Gheorghe]

18 hours ago, felser said:

Neither is almost everything else everyone's ever recorded.  'The Black Saint and the Sinner Lady' is a desert island disc for me.

What I listen to is very dependent on the certain mood I´m in. Usually I spin "Black Saint" in a warm spring night, when you can open the windows. 

But I have not cited it as my very favourite Mingus. If I might keep only one, it would be the 3 LP set "The Great Concert of Charles Mingus", you know Dolphy, Jordan, Byard, Richmond.....

[felser]

6 hours ago, Gheorghe said:

What I listen to is very dependent on the certain mood I´m in. Usually I spin "Black Saint" in a warm spring night, when you can open the windows. 

But I have not cited it as my very favourite Mingus. If I might keep only one, it would be the 3 LP set "The Great Concert of Charles Mingus", you know Dolphy, Jordan, Byard, Richmond.....

Great Concert of...  is wonderful, the first full Mingus I ever heard (it was in my college's library browser rack).  First Mingus cut I ever heard was "Hora Decubitas" from the wonderful 'Impulse Energy Essentials' sampler collection, which opened so many pathways for me when I picked it up as a brand new jazz convert.

[kh1958]

7 hours ago, Gheorghe said:

What I listen to is very dependent on the certain mood I´m in. Usually I spin "Black Saint" in a warm spring night, when you can open the windows. 

But I have not cited it as my very favourite Mingus. If I might keep only one, it would be the 3 LP set "The Great Concert of Charles Mingus", you know Dolphy, Jordan, Byard, Richmond.....

The Great Concert is great. At some point I realized that at the time of this concert, my family lived only about 80 miles from Paris--U.S. Army stationed in Orleans. Unfortunately, I was only 6 and not yet a Mingus fan.

[Gheorghe]

18 hours ago, felser said:

Great Concert of...  is wonderful, the first full Mingus I ever heard (it was in my college's library browser rack).  First Mingus cut I ever heard was "Hora Decubitas" from the wonderful 'Impulse Energy Essentials' sampler collection, which opened so many pathways for me when I picked it up as a brand new jazz convert.

Very similar to my entry in Mingus´ music. When I still was not a jazz fan, maybe 12 or 13, someone had a sampler with Jazz History and the only thing I dug was the last two tracks: "Milestones" from the Miles Davis sextet, and one of Mingus´ late fifties tracks from those albums "Dynasty" or "Ah Um" and that´s where I started to become a jazz fan with ambitions to play myself. So I bought first a Miles Davis album (Steamin´) and then somebody had "Great Concert" but stated that it´s too advanced for him, I gave it a try and that it was !! The best music I had heard in my live util then ! 

16 hours ago, kh1958 said:

The Great Concert is great. At some point I realized that at the time of this concert, my family lived only about 80 miles from Paris--U.S. Army stationed in Orleans. Unfortunately, I was only 6 and not yet a Mingus fan.

Same here in other surroundings: In the summer of 1964 when I was 5 years old, we did our holiday in France, while Bud Powell was performing in a Beach Resort called "Edenville". To bad that I was only 5 and not yet a Powell fan ! 

[sidewinder]

I've just cracked open the LP version of the set but so far, pretty pleased with it. Box and LPs are nicely done, good and easily readable booklet. Spinning 'Mingus Moves' and it sounds crisper and clearer than my old US Atlantic original. Good remastering job by Air Studios - this is a really good set !

Edited December 26, 2023 by sidewinder

[romualdo]

On 4/23/2023 at 3:46 PM, Gheorghe said:

But when I heard those "Wedding March" tracks I had or still have doubts that it´s Mingus who plays that. It sounds too "pianistic" for what I had heard Mingus checkin´ out on piano. It sounds like a pianist with a very delicate light touch. It´s nothing else than the short "caucasian" piano interlude on "Three or Four Shades of the Blues" which is played by Jimmy Rowles. See, that studio version of "Three or Four Shades of the Blues" is grossly overproduced. I heard it live from the quintet with Jack Walrath and Ricky Ford and with Bob Neloms on piano. 
I mean nothing wrong with Jimmy Rowles, but to get him in the studio ONLY to play a short piano passage ? Any pianist could play that simple maybe one minute gimmick which starts with Wedding March and that little waltz that seems to be an English Waltz. 
And it was recorded at Atlantic Studio AFTER the "Three or Four Shades" recording session. So maybe it was done afterwards just as one of the versions suggested for dubbin in the piano solo waltz section. 

from the box set booklet notes - In support of Georghe's comments above that the two "Wedding March" bonus CD tracks added to Cumbia.... are unlikely to be Mingus on piano but most likely Jimmy Rowles. Probably the reason these two tracks were excluded from the box set

Section titles from "Three Or Four Shades Of Blues" are described by Charles Mingus in the original liner notes and are followed here by new annotations by the author.

4. Bob Neloms temp solo, Caucasian Folk Blues, Jimmy Rowles piano

After Neloms' piano solo, Rowles steps into a quote from Mendelssohn's "Wedding March" and segues into a melody resembling the 18th-century folk song "Believe Me, If All Those Endearing Young Charms," which became popular in 1801 with new lyrics written by the Irish poet Thomas Moore. It seems Mingus meant these two pieces to represent "Caucasian Folk Blues."

Regarding the takes of Big Alice & The Call, both versions on the CD box set are take #1 whereas the bonus versions on the "Three or Four Shades...." CD releases are take #4 ("Big Alice") & take #2 ("The Call"). So, if you have the CD box & the standalone CD of TOFSOTB, you are only missing two takes of "Big Alice".

[l p]

12 hours ago, romualdo said:

Regarding the takes of Big Alice & The Call, both versions on the CD box set are take #1 whereas the bonus versions on the "Three or Four Shades...." CD releases are take #4 ("Big Alice") & take #2 ("The Call"). So, if you have the CD box & the standalone CD of TOFSOTB, you are only missing two takes of "Big Alice".

the bonus versions of big alice and the call are on mingus moves, not on 'three or four shades...'.

the call on the cd box is the same take as on mingus moves.

so, the vinyl version of the box set should have a new alternate take of 'the call', and 2 more takes of big alice, which are not available on the cd version of the box.

discogs:

vinyl outtakes:

O1         Music For "Todo Modo" (Take 1)    9:47  on cd box too

O2         Big Alice (Take 1)     4:55  on cd box too

O3         Big Alice (Take 2)     5:44

P1         Big Alice (Take 3)     4:54

P2         Big Alice (Take 4)     5:44  probably on mingus moves

P3         The Call (Take 1) 7:15* 

P4         The Call (Take 2) 7:16*

 

*  one of these is on mingus moves.

 

 

 

 

Edited 3 hours ago by l p

[romualdo]

1 hour ago, l p said:

the bonus versions of big alice and the call are on mingus moves, not on 'three or four shades...'.

the call on the cd box is the same take as on mingus moves.

so, the vinyl version of the box set should have a new alternate take of 'the call', and 2 more takes of big alice, which are not available on the cd version of the box.

discogs:

vinyl outtakes:

O1         Music For "Todo Modo" (Take 1)    9:47  on cd box too

O2         Big Alice (Take 1)     4:55  on cd box too

O3         Big Alice (Take 2)     5:44

P1         Big Alice (Take 3)     4:54

P2         Big Alice (Take 4)     5:44  probably on mingus moves

P3         The Call (Take 1) 7:15* 

P4         The Call (Take 2) 7:16*

Sorry, my bad re wrong CD - indeed it is Mingus Moves 

My two versions of the Call from the box set & the individual CD sound slightly different with the flute continuing to almost the end of the track on the box set CD version whereas on the individual CD version the flute is much less audible & cuts off well before the end of the track (maybe the remix improved the volume of the flute in the mix? & these are the same tracks??)

 

Also, the Lord Discography supports this

M8394] Add

Sy Johnson (arr-1) added

New York, October 30 & 31, 1973

28319	Opus 4	Atl SD1653, (G)R2-71454 [CD]
28320	Moves (hg,dh vcl)	-        -
28321	Wee (1)	-        -
28322	Flowers for a lady	-        -
28323	Newcomer	-        -
28324	Opus 3	-        -
28325	The call (take 1)	Atl (G)R1-695177
28325	The call (take 2)	Atl (G)R2-71454 [CD]
28326	Big Alice (take 1) (1)	Atl (G)R1-695177
28326	Big Alice (take 2) (1)	-
28326	Big Alice (take 3) (1)	-
28326	Big Alice (take 4) (1)	Atl (G)R2-71454 [CD]

Note:

All titles from Atlantic SD1653 also on Atlantic Quadradisc QD1653, (Eu)50040, (Jap)P8450A. All above titles also on Atlantic (G)R1-695177, Atlantic (G)R2-695177 [CD].

[l p]

the trumpet and sax solos are the same on the call mingus moves and the call atlantic box 7cd. yes?

i think the producers of the cd box made a mistake somewhere.