Philly Joe Jones/Elmo Hope Birdland recording (Accardi Collection)

[romualdo]

Latest email from Jan Evensmo's "Jazz Archeology" site has a number of his entries updated. Was perusing the Elmo Hope solography & found this new entry by The Philly Joe Jones Sextet, including Elmo - what a lineup. Anyone know if this has actually been released anywhere? Wonder how long before Pujol etc get their hands on this. So, James Accardi is not only an Armstrong afficionado. Would love to hear this. James does contribute to this site AFAIK.

Also found a listing of an unreleased acetate (James Accardi collection too) of Herschel Evans & Mary Lou Williams duo performance in the Evans solography

PHILLY JO JONES SEXTET                                                

NYC. Jan. 5, 1963 Dizzy Reece (tp), Sonny Red (as), John Gilmore (ts), Elmo Hope (p), Larry Ridley (b), Philly Jo Jones (dm).

WADO broadcast “The Symphony Sid Show” from Birdland (James Accardi collection), no EH on end theme 0:56 “Theme – Blue ‘N’ Boogie” but:  

1:02 Theme – Jumpin’ With Symphony Sid               Briefly in ens. (FM)

12:49 Joe’s Delight                                             Solo 3 choruses of 32 bars. Acc. (dm). (FM)

9:52 I Can’t Get Started                                   Intro 4 bars. Acc. (tp/as/ts). Solo 16 bars. (S)

6:59 Take Twelve                                       Solo 5 choruses of 12 bars. (F)  

Postscript of Oct. 2021: Great jazz archeological discovery, the first broadcast unearthed with this group! The dynamics of the leader is incredible, particularly “... Twelve” can take your breath away. EH has a prominent role, note how he comps PJJ on “... Delight” in addition to a long solo. His highlight is “... Started”, and the sound is good enough to give much detail of his comping behind the various solists. A beautiful solo also, only too bad he only gets half a chorus here, less than all the others get. 

Edited July 5, 2023 by romualdo

[Dan Gould]

That's quite an intriguing frontline ... If this Accardi person visits the O maybe he will explain how he got it and what might happen with it. 

[Niko]

yes, noticed this entry, too, as well as the two with Hope, Bill Hardman and Roland Alexander... they look very tasty... btw: Accardi is the guy behind wardellgray.org, the Armstrong guy is called Riccardi

[JSngry]

Autobuy if and when... 

[jlhoots]

Maybe they can combine it with something to get the duration up!!

[Joe]

Some personnel overlap with the SOUNDS FROM RIKERS ISLAND ensemble, but this appears to predate the recording sessions for that LP by several months (if the LP was indeed recorded in August of 1963). Intriguing either way!

Edited July 5, 2023 by Joe

[romualdo]

7 hours ago, Niko said:

yes, noticed this entry, too, as well as the two with Hope, Bill Hardman and Roland Alexander... they look very tasty... btw: Accardi is the guy behind wardellgray.org, the Armstrong guy is called Riccardi

bad me, yes you're right - me being a big Wardell fan I just realised that I've communicated with him in the past - I'll drop him a line

Edited July 5, 2023 by romualdo

[adh1907]

So exciting! Note Elmo didn’t hang around….

[clifford_thornton]

So Reece and Gilmore played together some years before his "From In To Out" Futura session? Very interesting.

[bertrand]

Odd that the track is listed as Take Twelve here.

[AllenLowe]

I love Elmo, but some of his 1960's playing is just not quite up to snuff (as on the Riker's Island session). But compositionally he was always together. I gather that there are no sound samples of this floating around? On the other hand, anything with Sonny Red is worth getting.

Edited July 6, 2023 by AllenLowe

[mhatta]

The similar lineup made one studio recording, but remain unissued.  From Noal Cohen's disco https://attictoys.com/elmo-hope-discography/#sess-year_1963

Date: ca. September 1963
Location: New York City
Label: Dauntless
Philly Joe Jones Sextet

Philly Joe Jones (ldr), Tommy Turrentine (t), Charlie Greenlee (tb), John Gilmore (ts), Elmo Hope (p), Larry Ridley (b), Philly Joe Jones (d)

a.Unknown Titles

Dauntless LP 12"???   

This session was never issued.

The Dauntless label is run by Tom Wilson, and seems Fresh Sound had some access to the tape vault.  But I don't know this particular session master survives...

[Joe]

3 hours ago, mhatta said:

The similar lineup made one studio recording, but remain unissued.  From Noal Cohen's disco https://attictoys.com/elmo-hope-discography/#sess-year_1963

Date: ca. September 1963
Location: New York City
Label: Dauntless
Philly Joe Jones Sextet

Philly Joe Jones (ldr), Tommy Turrentine (t), Charlie Greenlee (tb), John Gilmore (ts), Elmo Hope (p), Larry Ridley (b), Philly Joe Jones (d)

a.Unknown Titles

Dauntless LP 12"???   

This session was never issued.

The Dauntless label is run by Tom Wilson, and seems Fresh Sound had some access to the tape vault.  But I don't know this particular session master survives...

More Tommy Turrentine is nearly always a good thing! Let's hope this one emerges somehow.

[clifford_thornton]

I didn't know Tom Wilson ran Dauntless as well.

[Kevin Bresnahan]

49 minutes ago, Joe said:

More Tommy Turrentine is nearly always a good thing! Let's hope this one emerges somehow.

By the same token, Tommy's presence may be why this is still in the can.

[Dan Gould]

15 minutes ago, bresna said:

By the same token, Tommy's presence may be why this is still in the can.

How do you figure? 

[AllenLowe]

substance issues? IIRC he was still playing well in '63.

[Kevin Bresnahan]

I've heard that around 63/64, Tommy started being pretty unreliable. By the end of 1964, he was pretty much done. The rumor was that he had a drinking problem, not all that uncommon then or now.

I once asked Stanley at a gig in the mid-90s why he didn't bring his brother Tommy and he just shook his head no and said that Tommy couldn't play anymore.

Edited July 6, 2023 by bresna

[JSngry]

I've also heard issues surrounding "mental stability". Whether or not that was the cause or the result of the alcohol, who knows. Today's understanding is not yesterday's. 

[clifford_thornton]

He sounds good on Shepp's Mama Too Tight, from '67. Recordings get a lot more sporadic afterwards. Last recording is Sun Ra's Blue Delight, I think?

[AllenLowe]

he was pretty crazy when I met him, but that was the '70s. He kept growling at me.

I did hear him play with Duke Jordan around 1975. He played everything about a quarter-tone sharp. The lines were fine, but they were in a, well, different key, on another plane.

Edited July 6, 2023 by AllenLowe

[Rooster_Ties]

16 minutes ago, clifford_thornton said:

He sounds good on Shepp's Mama Too Tight, from '67. Recordings get a lot more sporadic afterwards. Last recording is Sun Ra's Blue Delight, I think?

I’m not sure if I’m seeing anything(?) on Discogs (that isn’t a reissue or a compilation) between that Shepp date, and Blue Delight.  Or am I overlooking something?

Also, I wonder what the story was with HOW he ended up on Blue Delight.  Not saying he shouldn’t have been on that date, but that certainly would have been at least slightly unexpected at the time, no?

(Sidenote: I first heard Blue Delight when the college radio station I worked for got promo copies of all of those (then) ‘current’ A&M jazz releases… the two Sun Ra’s, two(?) Don Cherrys, a Cecil Taylor, and an Art Blakey, iirc. Were there any others? Maybe a Mulligan too, or am I just imagining that?)

[clifford_thornton]

There's an appearance with Philly Joe for Sonet as well. I will admit that I forgot he was on Blue Delight until looking up his discography.

[Joe]

FWIW, Patton's BLUE JOHN was recorded in August of 1963. Turrentine sounds fine there (to my ears, anyway).

[clifford_thornton]

yeah, that is a good one.