Rooster_Ties

Isn't defining what "is" and what "isn't" a particular kind of music (or what that music is "supposed to be" about) -- either explicitly, or by inference -- more the purview of the Wynton Marsali and Stanley Crouches of the world?

Another possible touchstone - several tracks from Brains on Fire are more than just a little Trainwreck-esque (and more so than even Natural Essence).

First, I must confess I've always put all my discretionary spending money in music (mostly CD's, a few LP's) -- and rarely into stereo equipment. I certainly don't fault those who do otherwise, but please know I'm not looking for the "highest" high-end equipment. That said, decent sound would be nice of course, but my wife and I live in a small apartment, and my definition of "decent" may be a different than the norm around here. We had a nice-ish multi-disc player, that also played DVD's (a JVC, iirc), but it finally bit the dust a couple months ago. Ideally I'd like to replace it with something similar, but I'm not wed to having DVD capabilities (we rarely watch DVD's, and can easily look at them on our laptop). And I don't own even one Blueray, so you can see where my priories are (in terms of visual media). So, the things I would like, in priority order, are: CD player - could be a single-disc player, but a 3-disc multi-disc player would be OK too. Don't need a 5-disc (or 6 disc) player, and multi-disc is really not a huge priority. FM receiver - not an absolute requirement, but it would be nice to put on NPR in the other room (we currently only listen on an old clock-radio, and a very simple single-CD/FM bookshelf system in our bedroom. Optional, but nice, would be to be able to hook my iPhone into the system, to play Pandora or other steaming music (from my phone), through the system. Not an absolute requirement, but if it were an easy feature to get, I'd be tempted. And that's basically it. So, I could easily go with a really basic BOSE Wave Music System IV, to be honest. And although separate (bookshelf-size) speakers is fine (and what I had most recently had separate speakers) -- the size of our (small) apartment means that a Bose would probably be just fine too (our apartment is only one bedroom, and 630 square feet total -- and the living room/dining room/kitchen really feel like one big room (and only the bedroom is really separate). I've been to a couple retail places, and (as you can imagine), the choices are EXTREMELY limited for stereo systems that play CD's. (But I still own about 3,000 CD's, and buy about 50-60 more each year -- down from 150-200 per year when I was at my worst, like 15 years ago.) Thanks in advance for any suggestions. Very much appreciated?? Oh, budget. Well, I'm a cheapskate, so whatever it costs, I'm sure it's gonna be at least double what I think I ought to be spending. That said, I also know you get what you pay for too (I'm a firm believer in that, despite my cheapskate-leanings). So absolutely has to be well less than $1,000 -- and frankly, something closer to $500-$600 would be appreciated. Don't know if that's grounded in reality (the Bose is $500, and I know that's a little high for what it is), so surely $600 ought to be the top. I haven't bought a new system in probably 12-14 years, and never paid more than $300-$350 for my prior (integrated) bookshelf systems -- if that gives any sort of indication. But I realize 10-15 years ago was a long time ago, and I know prices will have gone up (and there's probably not much in the way of mid-range quality stereos any more -- it's probably all "more than reasonably good" or else "crap" (with little in between). Just imagine you're wanting to buy something for your office, or den -- not your "main" system -- what would you get these days? Thanks again!

Out of curiosity, how did they charge for a partial like that? Did it include the booklet and outer box? Which discs are you missing?

Just came out of the theater here in DC. Fun movie. Some will hate it, but I liked it quite a bit. Felt like there was probably a fair bit of 'truth' about Miles within the fictionalized narrative. Cheadle did a great job acting, and a generally good directing (though maybe not award-worthy). And even a fair number of facts surrounding the 1979-era plot-line were (as best I'm recalling), true as well - or certainly based in fact. (Don't want to give away plot details, but what is actually known about those actual still unreleased 1978 sessions is not inconsistent with how they're ultimately represented in the film). A net positive, far as I'm concerned. Could have been told with a lot more traditional narrative, but been less interesting. Sounds like it was impossible to get made, so you have to admire Cheadle's willingness to think outside the box and take chances. Some of those chances work, maybe some not as well. But still worth seeing. No regrets, and I'd watch it again.

Thanks for the tips. I'll probably have to decide in about 3-4 days, so I can get my train tix. Is there a good classical music calendar on-line anywhere for NYC? (The right obscure 20th century composer might temp me too.) Thanks again!

Looks like I'm going to be in NYC for work Thu & Fri that week, and could stay over until Saturday (or even Sunday, I suppose). Thing is, there's a rare Gary Thomas live date (with him as the leader) back here in Baltimore on Saturday (4/23) that I'm really tempted to go to, but I could otherwise catch something in NYC on Friday night (4/22). Checked the Village Vanguard and Smalls schedules, but have to confess I'm ignorant of the whole scene otherwise in NYC. Anything going on then that I should be aware of? Jazz, or even Classical (strong preference for 20th Century, or late-late Romantic-era stuff). Thanks!!

Regardless of the title, if you total up all the different released Gil versions (omitting the version on Etcetera), there are by my count at least 8 issued versions over the years (or 9 with the Shorter version). So clearly a tune that lived strong in Gil's band's book for a long time. Again, why in the devil did those first three -- and arguably the very BEST three -- versions of the tune just languish in the vaults for 33, 10, and 15 years each (respectively)?

Well, here's something entirely new to me. Gil apparently ALSO continued to perform and also recorded this very same tune simply calling it "Waltz" (source). If you search YouTube for "Gil Evans Waltz" there are at least 3-4 different examples (none of which mention Barracudas or General Assembly), for example THIS, or THAT, and THE OTHER. Learn something new every day... One on-line Gil discography (here) seems to indicate at least 5 different versions of "Waltz" were recorded/released (all seemingly live versions): Montreux Jazz Festival '74 - Gil Evans - Nippon Phonogram RJ6043 - LP Parabola - Gil Evans Orchestra Horo HDP31-32 - 2LPs Gil Evans and his Orchestra - View Video 1301 - VHS Video (which is nearly the same as next item below) Gil Evans and his Orchestra - ? RC-0002 - VHS Video (Japan) Orchestre National de Jazz 86 direction François Jeanneau - Label Bleu LBC 6503 - CD Farewell - Gil Evans & the Monday Night Orchestra - King K32Y 6250 - CD Again, these are all live documents with "Waltz" in the track-listing (source)

I've always thought of Miles' studio output within the years of about 1968-1973 as being VERY cinegraphic -- or maybe highly suitable to be paired with cinematography is a better way of saying it. I think there's a LOT of films that could/would benefit by the inclusion of Miles' late-60's/early-70's material.

Here's the Ampex/enja version from 1969... www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5GocDU2rTg Wow, I haven't listened to this in a LONG time - I'd forgotten just how damn different it is. With layers upon layers in the early buildup to the vamp/"theme" (in so much as there even is a theme). Just listening (quietly) on my speakers at work, and I'm not trusting the above YouTube upload, so here's another... www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhLxhyE16HM ...though it sounds the same.

Damn, Jim. I picked up the CD issue of Individualism in the very early 90's (and played the hell out of it at the time!) -- it was my first exposure to Gil outside of the Miles collaborations (and several years before I ever found/got any other 'Miles-less' Gil on CD, probably not until the late 90's). So being Track 1 on the CD, "Time of the Barracudas" made this HUGE impression on me early on -- it was THE Gil Evans tune (without Miles) in my mind. So why the 10-year wait to issue the 1964 Evans/Shorter/Elvin/Burrell version? It's a frickin' masterpiece! - one of the highlights of the entire Gil Evans catalog, for gosh sake. QUESTION: Other than the big three I started out with in my post, are there any OTHER versions that pre-date the Ampex/ejna version from 1969? (Meaning, is the Ampex/enja Blues in Orbit version really the 4th recorded version? - or are there any other versions specifically from the 1960's?) All of those first three versions are just knockouts (well, maybe not quite the Miles -- but it is still Miles, and in the context of the whole 13-minute suite, it's still pretty darn good -- or at least certainly better than anything that came out on Quiet Nights). And Etcetera is probably my #1 favorite Wayne Shorter Blue Note album (or a close second to All Seeing Eye, some days). I could almost understand one or even two of those first three versions staying in the can 10 years or more -- but all three??

Me too, and I'll buy almost any title that includes it. I have (or have had) remakes on leader-dates by Ingrid Jensen, and another by Scott Colley (with Ravi Coltrane, iirc) -- but those are the only two 'covers' I can think of at the moment. Would welcome hearing of others!

It looks like maybe there's a 2LP version of Individualism from 1974 that also had the Evans/Shorter/Elvin/Burrell version (the 2nd LP looks like it was the same as the obscure single LP), along with the other sketches that Gil never wanted released. Was this 2LP version widely known at the time? And while we're at it, are those other four 'sketches' at all interesting? I know Gil must have really disliked them, but I've always been curious to hear them (but never have). Haven't ever found them uploaded to YouTube, but that's about the only place I've ever looked online to hear them.

I just realized (or had forgotten), that iirc -- ALL three(!) of the first(?) three major recordings of this tune, ALL went unreleased for 10 or more years after they were first recorded. If I've got my facts straight... 1. First recorded version with Miles Davis and Gil Evans ensemble from 1963 - went unreleased until the Complete Miles & Gil box in 1996. Lots more good info HERE, which is a Google-translated German Wikipedia page for the tune (German to English). 2. Second recorded version with Gil Evans Orchestra, Wayne Shorter, Elvin Jones, Kenny Burrell, et al. from 1964 - went unreleased until the early 70's (is that right?), on an album of all previously unreleased Gil Evans material, some of which were just sketches that Gil never wanted released. This version later came out on the CD editions of Individualism Of..., and being the first track on the CD, most folks (including myself) probably thought that's where it came from originally (had forgotten that until recently). Is that all right? - that stunning version sat in the can for 10(!) years! (THIS is the 1974 album that I think is the first ever release of the Evans/Shorter/Elvin/Burrell version, correct?) 3. Wayne Shorter quartet version from 1965 for Etcetera (for Blue Note), simply titled "Barracudas" - but not released until 1980, on the LT series. What was the first ever released version of this tune? - the 1974 issue of the 1964 Evans/Shorter/Elvin/Burrell version? Or, maybe the 4th(!) recorded version from 1969 with Billy Harper, et al. (which seems to have been released on Ampex in 1970, on an album simply called Gil Evans, and that same material was later reissued in 1985 by enja as Blues in Orbit)? I'm reading online that the shorter Ampex version of this album (with only the 1969-recorded tracks) was supposedly poorly distributed -- and maybe wasn't widely known until the enja reissue in 1985.) So then, was Wayne's BN quartet version (released in 1980!), really the FIRST widely distributed/known version of this tune? Then (if you can believe it), maybe followed by the 1985 enja reissue of the 1969 (4th) recorded version (originally on Ampex)? And then it wasn't FINALLY until the 1988(!) CD issue of Individualism that anybody really had half-a -chance to hear it even close to the way Gil originally intended? Jeez, what a horrible release history for what I consider to be one of Gil's near signature tunes. WTF? Discuss...

Opens here in DC on Friday, in at least the art-house theaters downtown (E Street). Looking forward to it this weekend, though I'm keeping my expectations in check.

Terumasa Hino's first recording of the tune (at least I think this version from his 1967 album of the same name is his first ever recording of the tune) is really something special. I just picked up this album on CD a couple weeks ago (burn-on-demand via CDJapan), and it's really spectacular. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nn-LQpFhGIY

Maupin's playing on Chick Corea's "Complete 'Is' Sessions" (from around the same year as Lee Morgan's Lighthouse stint), is very Shorter-esque too, and simply wonderful.

Thanks!! 47 this year, gasp, one more year and I'll have to round up to 50!

How's the piano on this new "Blue Mitchell / Sonny Red - Uptown" release?? If it's as out of tune as a couple of the other Left Bank things I've heard, I'd be hard-pressed to get too excited about this. Then again, if it's not too bad -- then I'm in. I'm not even all that picky, bud DAMN, there's one Lee Moran left Bank thing I know I used to have (forget which one), that was downright painful.

I'm 47 (just today, in fact). While I still really like early REM (the entire IRS years), I got burned out on a lot of their big hit records on Warner Brothers (which I still like, but don't listen to as much). But Monster was totally different, and not a blues chord-change to be found in the entire thing (by design, iirc). And New Adventures was even more in contrast to their better known 'sound'. And for some reason Reveal has always sounded like what I would expect a Michael Stipe solo album to sound like. I'm NOT a fan of all their post-Automatic for the People efforts. Up is hit-n-miss for me, and Around the Sun is total dreck as far as I'm concerned (gack, I can't stand that album). But the last two albums are quite nice, though I haven't spent enough time with them yet (even now), to have fully embraced them like most of the rest of the (earlier) catalog. My 'problem' (if you can call it that, though it's not really a problem per se) with the earlier, "classic" IRS sound/years is that there's so much similarity to so much of the sound of that material (great as so much of it is). Also, I've been there and done that for so long, I'm a little burned out on the early stuff more. Document came out my freshman year in college, and it and lots of what came before were the soundtrack of much of my college years. And also what came out shortly thereafter too. You see, ALSO... ...on the college radio station where I worked on-air (circa 1988-92), the IRS stuff got overplayed (some of it WAY overplayed). And the on the Top-40/Adult Contemporary-Hits-Radio (CHR) station where I also worked on-air (at the same time, circa 1990-94), the Warner Brothers stuff got overplayed (and some of IT also got WAY overplayed). So you can see where I'm left is with Monster and some select things after it, that still sound fresh and new to me to this very day.

I'm weird. My top 3 favorite REM albums... 1. New Adventures In Hi-Fi (1996) 2. Reveal (2001) 3. Monster (1994) ...and from about 1995-2005, my #1 favorite was Monster. (And I think my wife's #1 is Reveal.)

A contemporaneous version (Sept 1965) of Nathan Davis' "Trane of Thought" - with Carmell Jones, Francy Boland, Jimmy Woode, and Kenny Clarke. This was recorded for MPS in Germany about 9 months after the version in Paris from the newly discovered RTF recordings.

Answering my own question... > The Maison de la Radio is indeed on the cover of Larry Young's 'Into Something'. The building was also known as Maison de l'ORTF back then. http://www.organissimo.org/forum/index.php?/topic/63794-butch-warren-discography-question/&do=findComment&comment=1091417

Just got a copy of this last night (at an event for the new Larry Young in Paris set), and what I heard briefly this morning as I was getting ready for work sounded great! Hope to spend some more time with this over the weekend.