Big Beat Steve

OT but ... It may well be that most of those mentioned would not look all that short next to Lars Färnlöf, renowned trumpeter on the Swedish jazz scene of the 60s (worked with Staffan Abeléen and others).

Style-wise, he made a virtue of his limitations (or should I say "shortcomings"? ).

Why? You're too young to have listened to Miles in his "Paris 1949" days or to Fats Navarro "live" either. (So am I, but this has never prevented me from enjoying what I LIKE to hear, including 20s jazz to some extent). Once you go beyond the consumption of purely "contemporary" music that's "hot" the moment you catch it live (and that you discard as soon as the next musical fad comes up), interest in musical styles that had their heyday at some time in the past is not linked to the age of the listener at all but strictly to musical tastes and preferences. Or why, for example, would chicks in their early to mid-20s have bought 78s of Johnny Mercer and the Pied Pipers at my fleamarket stall last summer? And beyond personal tastes in music, "It's the history, dude!" 😉 Awareness of which cannot hurt. BTW, the way I understood the quote from Bushell's book he did not so much judge Miles Davis for his fingering but rather for the fluffs that came out of his horn. To the best of my recollection, Bushell wasn't the only one there.

Interesting ... Pity the link is access-restricted. It sounds like a rewarding read. Contrasting these two views (and in the light of his latter-day recording activities) I guess it would be difficult to accuse him summarily of being a "moldy fig". So could it be that criticisms of his assessments - that invariably exist - risk sounding like "No, I don't want my hero to be pushed into the "emperor's clothes" corner" ? (P.S. I like the "classic" Miles Davis Quintet a lot ... and still ... )

Which only goes to show that on average the recording dates in your collection are too "recent" or too "far out". 😉 In the (roughly) 1954-1970 era it was pretty hard to "avoid" Milt Hinton and Osie Johnson in the N.Y. studio line-ups unless it was working bands that were recorded or unless you were a diehard "wailjazz" 😉 or avantgarde listener.

Thanks, Ken, for this explanation.

Just out of curiosity: How does the "Bass Line" book compare with the "OverTime" book of Milt Hinton photographs? Overlaps of contents? Duplications? Or all differnt?

Which I think can easily be explained by the simple notion of "different tastes" or musical preferences (regardless of whether the main instrument is the same). Happened to everyone at one point or another with this or that artist, I guess ... Or is it a matter of apples and oranges?

Not Larry Kart but ... Ike Day was mentioned in this context here before ... (by Ghost of Miles): He is given some coverage on the Red Saunders Research Foundation website, i.e. in the sections on the Aristocrat label and on Tom Archia. He also worked with Gene Ammons a.o., and according to online sources other name jazzmen such as Buddy Rich and Eddie Harris also praised him without reservations. The first time I myself came across his name was on the "Chicago Boss Tenors" LP on Chess (CHV 414) around 1980. The photo on the back cover showing Max Roach sitting in front of the stage watching Ike Day do his job was credentials enough to make his name stick.

No interest here in the "Old Time Modern (etc.)" 10-incher by Urbie Green on Vanguard? That was my first exposure to him (fleamarket find - along with a Dizzy in Paris 10-incher on Vogue) a VERY long time ago (early 80s, I think). These early impressions may mean I am biased but I always liked it as a typical example of that 50s mainstream "swing freshening-up".

Me neither, I guess. At one point quite a few years ago I decided I needed to get seriously into the Roulette Basie years (beyond the Atomic, Chairmen and Hefti albums). As it happened I managed to round up most of the LPs reissued in the 80s and distributed by Vogue France at low prices in the special-offer secondhand bins locally, at least those of primary importance to me (from the run of 23 LPs or so in all). The few remaining items were found on Discogs. However, I had decided early on to skip the non-Joe Williams and non-LH&R vocals albums as well as this "String Along" album. (Strangely hardly any of these albums had shown up in the special offer bins anyway - as if these reissues had sold less well at its time.) Listening to it now on YT confirmed my decision. Although I might grab a copy (for occasional very late-night listening) when I come across one really dirt cheap. It's "better" done than quite a few other "with strings" LPs (where the strings really drain out the jazz lifeblood) but at any rate, it is definitely on the non-essential side of the Roulettes for me.

Biographies are your friends 😁 (from Feather and Chilton through New Grove to present-day tomes). - No, more seriously: I think in those long-gone days many musicians managed to cram much more accomplishments "for eternity" into their younger pro years than has become the typical case in rather recent decades. Chu Berry was only 31 when he died too. As for the Harry James sides, have you been unable to score a copy of the HEP CD that Mike suggested? It's still listed as being available on the Hep website: https://www.hepjazz.com/hep_jazz_1000_series.html#anchorbasie Or would this be uneconomical because you already have all the Basie tracks? (Understandable, then ...) Anyway ... unearthing of this thread has prompted me to pull out my copy of TAX m-8015 (Harry James "Texas Chatter") and give it a spin. Very welcome! As for other suggestions (that should have come up since this thread started), how about the Herschel Evans presence on the Count Basie Orchestra airshots and the Lionel Hampton Jam Session included in the "Savory Sessions" box set on Mosaic?

Yes. I even think this is where the made the biggest splash in the Brubeck context. See OJC-101 (reissue of Fantasy F-3-239).

Too bad shipping across the pond has become totally uneconomical these days. A while ago I picked a very, very clean spare copy of the "Basie Reunion" twofer (Prestige P-24019) that includes "For Basie" along with the contents of the "Basie Reunion" LP at a ridiculously low price. A price at which I did not hesitate putting a copy on my rack of spare items of records I particularly like. I am glad I picked up a copy of "On The Sunny Side" (secondhand, of course) when the occasion arose. It's a cover you remember and I do not remember having seen it often in more recent years. OJC CDs do come up in the secondhand bins at the #1 remaining local record store here from time to time - incalculable as to what you can get your hands on, but sometimes with unexpected surprises. My most recent purchases were "Please Mr Jackson" by Willis Jackson and "Soul Street" by Jimmy Forrest - at the outrageous sum of 1 EUR each! But no, these prices ARE fairly rare occurrences.

I wonder if the one below has been posted or mentioned here before. I guess it ranks as the longest-standing album cover "mistake" ever perpetuated through the generations. (Of course I realize it all was a markting ploy by Verve at the time, and the "explanation" - or excuse - on the back cover liner notes reads VERY lame and identifies the place incorrectly again, so .... 😄) As will be known, the contents on this LP originated nowhere near London and were recorded live not in Stockholm (as the liner notes claim) but in Göteborg (Sweden). Seeing how often reissues have "corrected" the packagings of earlier pressings elsewhere, it is strange that not even subsequent CD reissues with the original cover photo ever saw fit to change the title to something tongue-in-cheek like "Basie NOT in London". 😁 As I just saw in a period music magazine, no wonder they did pick up on this misappropriation in their ads for the Swedish release of this: "- the much talked-about LP with the "false designation of origin" - recorded in Göteborg."

It seems you all misunderstood my point - or else I've misunderstood Stompin's point.- Actually what I tried to point out was that JATP audiences of the late 40s or 50s were NOT all that rowdier than at other venues of similar package concerts in the 50s. Hence my reference to certain concerts leaning towards R&B and the Gene Norman Just Jazz concerts. Of course I have not listened to that actual box set but I have a lot of its contents on other reissues so am relatively familiar with a good deal of the material. I fact I listened to quite a bit of JATP recordings during recent weeks because I (at last) finished reading the Norman Granz biography around New Year. Anyway ... wasn't it so that both the "antics" of some of the musicians building up excitement on stage in the "uptempo" segments of the concerts and the audience reaction were what caused the JATP tours to be labeled "circus" events by some observers? A bit unfairly IMHO. In short, given the context of the times with this kind of concerts, fairly exuberant audiences were not all that uncommon and just part of the setting and times. And comparisons with today's jazz audiences are beside the mark.

Remember the period this music originated in. JAPT still catered to that part of the jazz audience that looked for extrovert entertainment and excitement (sometimes for better or in fact worse) and not (as yet) for wisely pondering, restrained head-nodding to the tones emitted by the MJQ 😉 and their likes. And remember that neither honking saxes on the R&B circuit nor rabble-rousing Gene Norman concerts were far removed in geography or chronology but still relatively recent. Even beyond early JATP concerts from the 40s, some JATP artists such as Flip Phillips thrived on this excitement. And audience reactions probably were even more intense during some European tours. Which did not always improve the "circus" reputations of the JATP tours in some circles. 😉 So I am not sure that "nowadays" would be a valid comparison at all.

A good lead, Niko ... My reflexes of referring to that site (which I consult relatively often elsewheree) seem to have failed me - although the connection was made when the rarity of that session was evoked here some months ago: P.S: I just noticed Mark Stryker did refer to the Red Saunders site in his post in the below topic on 24 December. So he is aware of that site. Wonder if the collecting experts running the site have been able to provide any clues as to where to search further? If not then Apollo 390 seems to be rarer than even some of the rarest 20s Paramounts.

I suppose you have already checked with the Delmark label (that reissued a lot of Apollo recordings) if they have anything in their archives (even after Bob Koester sold the label)?

Honor to whom (leader) honor is due. 😄 Actually this is the photo also used on the Prestige reissue. Which of course can unsettle the clueless: I remember when I bought my copy (as mentioned in my earlier post) and carried it back into the classroom for the afternoon high school classes one class"mate" who probably considered himself enlightened in matters jazz, seeing the cover called out "Walter "FOOTS??" (pronouncing this something like "feets" in mockery, and making fun of Thomas' fancy tie), as if Thomas was even less than an also-ran. (Oh well, what can you expect from someone who in those late 70s considered fusion and jazz rock the beginning and end of all jazz? 😁 Certainly no familiarity with the long-standing lineup of the Cab Calloway orchestra 😆) Seriously, I find it nice to see that Harlequin saw fit to use an appropriate illustration for the record. Which shows that they relied not only on flashy names to grab the dollars of chance buyers but preferred just as much to attract the connoisseurs. Like they (and, above all, their sister label Krazy Kat) did with loads of other reissues of that period that were billed to artists far off the beaten tracks of the "name" suspects. Anyway ...haven't there been more, way more than enough reissues where the large-letter "name" billing on the cover had nothing to do with who actually was the leader (indicating the style of music on the platter) of the recordings reissued? Remember those reissues of small-band swing sessions by Eddie Heywood from the same period (for the Signature label) that on more than one later reissue were billed to "Shelly Manne & Co."? (Just because Manne was the drummer on those Heywood leader dates) And there were tons more like that to confound the easily guiled ... 😉

Not that I would be familiar with even the majority of the Argo output, but among those I have heard my personal favorite is "Swingin' The Loop" featuring Vito Price "and Company" (Argo LP 631). And next in line for me would be "Chubby's Back" by Chubby Jackson (Argo LP 614).

Trying to work "Ken Vail Diary"-style information into the text, maybe? I think for completists it would be interesting to see where he played (and when) at any given moment but admittedly not for everyone. Particularly if the venues and dates are just rattled off and no specific information or anecdotes are provided for at least SOME of the gigs/concerts listed.

The Bean & Ben Sessions (minus the alternates which I guess are not 100% essential) have been around the reissue block quite often. Most of those sessions were reissued on Prestige 7584 in the late 60s as part of their "Prestige Historical Series" and remained in print for quite a long time and must have been distributed fairly well. I bought a copy of its German license pressing (Bellaphon BJS 40122) while I was still in school in the late 70s, and this became one of my (almost desert-island) favorites among early-mid 40s small-band swing. In fact I bought another NM copy ("just in case ...") a couple of years ago cheaply at a clearout sale (and I could have picked up more irresistibly priced secondhand copies through the years). The sessions were then reissued again in the 80s on vinyl on Harlequin HQ2004 (when Interstate reissued a HUGE bunch of Joe Davis masters, filling a LOT of LPs). When it hit the shops here I skipped this one it because I already had all of the master take contents (the one Coleman Hawkins session - of 19 Oct. 1944 - that was not on Prestige 7584 had been reissued on Prestige 7824) but I remember it was available for quite a while too. Secondhand copies are not impossible to find at a good price either. So all these reissues must have sold fairly well.

Would be right up my alley too, particularly the subculture angle beyond pure music making. (The table of contents is promising ...) But at this price? Incidentally, it is already for sale on specialist websites over here too. However, what I found in an online description of the book made me wary ... "In an exploration via the intersections of race, class and gender ... Combining a wide range of archival research and theory, ... argues that the bebop story is an important precedent to the institutional harassment of black-related spaces and culture that continued in the twentieth and twenty-first centuries. This book therefore rewrites the first chapter of the 'classic' subcultural canon ..." New research that steps outside the trodden paths and a new angle to look at history are very welcome, but the above makes me wonder what kind of agenda (that conforms to current trends of thinking, above all) the author is after ... And I have become wary of authors trying too blatantly to make history match their agendas. Listening to his interview on BBC hasn't dispelled my misgivings completely. As for presenting music history in its context of society, from all I have read about Britain (admittedly not nearly all), to me "The Restless Generation - How rock music changed the face of 1950s Britain" by Pete Frame still is a sort of yardstick of how it can be done in an honest, even-handed way. Anyway, I'd find it interesting to learn who the early Black exponents of British Bebop were in the very first post-war years. The West Indians' work AFTER the ill-fated Ken Snakehips Johnson era covered to some extent here? https://www.discogs.com/de/release/7691254-Various-Black-British-Swing