Dmitry Posted September 10, 2003 Report Share Posted September 10, 2003 (edited) I'm with Ed on this. Some of you guys are really unfair to the guy. I don't remember him ever using Cuscuna to show off his ... hipness, I guess[i would ]. His were some of the first posts I read on the old old Blue Note Board in the Spring of 1999, after my first rvg-connoisseur binge[how many of us ended up there because of the web-site address on the rvg slipcovers?]. Anyway..Kevin had always been willing to help others look for oop cds and was pretty altruistic about it. We were not personal friends, but it'd be sad to see him go, indeed. I wouldn't have taken down those 4 or 5 threads, if I were him, but 6 pages on this?! Come on, guys, go out, get laid, eat some sushi, see a gig. I personally would like to see the existing option of deleting threads open to all the members, like it is now. Edited September 10, 2003 by Dmitry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Alfredson Posted September 10, 2003 Report Share Posted September 10, 2003 In other, semi-related news, I got my cable modem back today!!! WOOT! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christiern Posted September 10, 2003 Report Share Posted September 10, 2003 Too bad Kevin took off. Some of you guys are really mud-slinging the guy. I don't remember him ever using Cuscuna to show off his ... hipness, I guess[i would:D]. It is perhaps because I never thought of Michael Cuscuna's name as being in the "dropable" category that I had to wonder why Kevin so gratuitously popped it into his posts. I assumed--perhaps incorrectly and unfairly--that it somehow fulfilled a need in Kevin that the rest of us didn't recognize. Anyway, I obviously hit a nerve when I chided him about it, and I am sorry that I did. I think Kevin could easily have passed on information obtained from Michael and simply stated that he had it from a reliable source. In fact, I don't know why he would even have to do that. I occasionally mention or refer to something that has not yet been made public, but my source is unimportant. It never occurred to me that Kevin might be making things up about the plans of Blue Note/Mosaic, so there was no need for him to offer proof. I'm sure that goes for most of us. BTW, Don Lucoff, who handles PR for BN, regularly mails out lists of forthcoming albums, and he does so well in advance of their release. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertrand Posted September 10, 2003 Report Share Posted September 10, 2003 Maybe this PR guy can tell us why they closed the board? Bertrand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.A.W. Posted September 10, 2003 Report Share Posted September 10, 2003 Personally, I can believe what Kevin did as I did something similar over on the AAJ board. I got pissed over the reaction of some board members when, trying to diffuse one of Karim's debacles, I posted a girlie pic. Because of the tsks tsks, I deleted the picture, posted an apology and then deleted over one hundred of my posts - all but four or five. Childish? I wouldn't deny that at all. The way I looked at it, my posts were my property. Certainly not of great value, but mine. Needless to say, the owner of the AAJ board has now removed my ability to post. Rightfully so, I might add. I would not have deleted a thread that had the value of the RVG thread. Kevin seems to be a very nice guy and I hold no ill will toward him for what he has done. It was obvious that he was getting pissed over being teased for his alleged name-dropping and the Greg incident was apparently the straw that broke his camel's back. Lesson learned? Let's stop the meanness that’s being exhibited by certain members toward our own. Now that Kevin’s gone, whom do we pick on next? While I see what you mean, I still think deleting his thread was a childish, narrow-minded and vindictive thing to do. Sure, in principle his posts are his intellectual property and he can do with them as he sees fit, but I also think that when posts contain information that contributes to and enchances the value of a BB (like many of his posts did), and when they are intended as such (as his posts clearly were), they cease to be one's property and more or less become part of that BB's "public domain". Besides, it might be argued that by deleting his thread he violated the intellectual property of others, whose posts in his thread were automatically deleted with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJ Posted September 10, 2003 Report Share Posted September 10, 2003 I honestly think there is much truth to Kevin's "dropping" of Cuscuna's name - it struck me that way on more than one occasion - but hey, we all have our faults and overall Kevin was a wonderful contributor (geez, I don't personally know Cuscuna, so how ELSE am I gonna get the inside info?) I'm sorry to see him go. As to deleting his posts, well, I don't think it was too cool personally, but it's his choice, they were his words and I think he's entitled to "take them with him" if he wanted to. The whole "his posts were a public service" argument being made here just doesn't really hold water as far as I'm concerned. Our posts aren't copyrighted material, whereby when we post we somehow "sign over the rights" to a publisher or other entity. So it's his business what he decided to do with them, childish though it may seem to have taken the route he did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.A.W. Posted September 10, 2003 Report Share Posted September 10, 2003 (edited) I honestly think there is much truth to Kevin's "dropping" of Cuscuna's name - it struck me that way on more than one occasion - but hey, we all have our faults and overall Kevin was a wonderful contributor (geez, I don't personally know Cuscuna, so how ELSE am I gonna get the inside info?)Â I'm sorry to see him go. As to deleting his posts, well, I don't think it was too cool personally, but it's his choice, they were his words and I think he's entitled to "take them with him" if he wanted to. The whole "his posts were a public service" argument being made here just doesn't really hold water as far as I'm concerned. Our posts aren't copyrighted material, whereby when we post we somehow "sign over the rights" to a publisher or other entity. So it's his business what he decided to do with them, childish though it may seem to have taken the route he did. I didn't mean that he "legally" signed over his rights to the BB when he posted here; of course he didn't, and neither do we. It just seems to me that posts containing info like his could be regarded as being part of what a board like this is all about, i.e. providing information that every member has access to, a kind of "public domain", and that it feels wrong to delete them for whatever reason other than errors or incorrect information. Edited September 10, 2003 by J.A.W. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted September 10, 2003 Report Share Posted September 10, 2003 (edited) Yeah, I basically agree with Tony on this issue. I think it would have been tidier and maybe more PC to go into the threads and remove only his posts (except for the initial one, edit that one down perhaps so the thread remains) and leave the responses of others. But Kevin was in a mood where tidiness and careful editing and deleting seemed inappropriate. I'm not sure if it was childish, or imperialistic, or that I am qualified and have enough information to "qualify" it. . . it was Kevin's decision. I'll miss his posting here and I wish he hadn't cut and run over what was a disagreement about a management decision that management had a right to make just as they did. But he had the right and the technology to make this choice. Perhaps we can show him that this is the place to be and he may return. I feel sorry that his choices to post about jazz among jazzers are now JC and AAJ! Edited September 10, 2003 by jazzbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gould Posted September 10, 2003 Report Share Posted September 10, 2003 I frankly consider his actions to be driven by pure spite, as someone said "taking his ball and going home." Whether he had the "right" or not, as I believe Ed said, it was one big F.U. to the entire board, and what is especially uncool is that he had a beef with Jim Alfredson and *perhaps* with the posters who Kevin felt took unseemly pleasure in what happened to Greg. But he took that and sent a big F.U. to the entire board, and that is ridiculously childish and frankly, hurtful. I can only assume that as he deleted those threads he was cackling with glee, perhaps as he assumed Masterhit was as he banned Greg. Kevin voluntarily provided a community service and its one thing to stop providing it-he's free to do that if he so chooses. But to remove any remnant of his earlier Public Service Announcements is childish and hateful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted September 10, 2003 Report Share Posted September 10, 2003 You're probably right Dan. I think that this actually isn't hateful as "hurt." I think that there is a new word that needs to be created for a similar type of reaction, "internetish" or something. . . it's an action from an emotional reaction to attacks and conflicts on the internet that seems to be peculiar to the medium and to be pretty widespread---I think many of us here have surrendered to a similar reaction to one extent or another over the years during our participations on boards. . . . I'm not convinced that Kevin "owes" any of us the information that he provided past a point that he no longer wishes to display it. It's rather "internetish" of him to decide to remove it. . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.A.W. Posted September 10, 2003 Report Share Posted September 10, 2003 Kevin voluntarily provided a community service and its one thing to stop providing it-he's free to do that if he so chooses. But to remove any remnant of his earlier Public Service Announcements is childish and hateful. I fully agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catesta Posted September 10, 2003 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2003 When do we start taking shots at Chuck? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed S Posted September 10, 2003 Report Share Posted September 10, 2003 When do we start taking shots at Chuck? As soon as Jim can figure out if he can prevent Chuck from deleting his posts and threads. Once that's determined, it's fire at will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.A.W. Posted September 10, 2003 Report Share Posted September 10, 2003 you mean he gave us the virtual finger? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.A.W. Posted September 10, 2003 Report Share Posted September 10, 2003 The heck, I have already started just now here's to you Chuck! What's in there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel A Posted September 10, 2003 Report Share Posted September 10, 2003 I think that there is a new word that needs to be created for a similar type of reaction, "internetish" or something. . . it's an action from an emotional reaction to attacks and conflicts on the internet that seems to be peculiar to the medium and to be pretty widespread--- This is a very interesting phenomenon! I wonder if any studies on the subject have been made. When communicating with people in the "real" world, much of the communication is outside of the verbal dialog. After spending years on message boards ("calmly typing a keyboard" to paraphrase another departed board member ) I suppose a lot of supressed feelings may suddenly make the cup run over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Dye Posted September 10, 2003 Report Share Posted September 10, 2003 I had said in an earlier post that I had lost what respect I had left for Kevin. Well, upon further reflection, I was being a bit "Internetish" there. I still really appreciate what he did for all of us over the years. I have been reading and enjoying his posts since 1996 going back to rec.music.bluenote on the usenet. I guess I should have given him more of a break than I did. Isn't it amazing how years of good karma can be reversed in a couple of days?! I still don't like what he did here, but we all can have our moments and I guess we all should try to remember that. I hope he decides to return at some point in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.A.W. Posted September 10, 2003 Report Share Posted September 10, 2003 ranja? Hm, I was more or less hoping for a report (taste, brand, vintage, after-taste / tongue, etc.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.A.W. Posted September 10, 2003 Report Share Posted September 10, 2003 (edited) I hope he decides to return at some point in the future. So do I. I appreciated most of his posts and I'm very sorry he's left (this doesn't mean I changed my mind about his deleting his thread, though) Edited September 10, 2003 by J.A.W. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son-of-a-Weizen Posted September 10, 2003 Report Share Posted September 10, 2003 He left? Damn, now I'll never get that burn of that 2nd session from the Ervin "Back From the Gig" vinyl!! Time to go into panic mode......ahhhh, any stand-up soul interested in swapping a burn ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Johnson Posted September 10, 2003 Report Share Posted September 10, 2003 you mean he gave us the virtual finger? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzmoose Posted September 10, 2003 Report Share Posted September 10, 2003 You're probably right Dan. I think that this actually isn't hateful as "hurt." I think that there is a new word that needs to be created for a similar type of reaction, "internetish" or something. . . it's an action from an emotional reaction to attacks and conflicts on the internet that seems to be peculiar to the medium and to be pretty widespread---I think many of us here have surrendered to a similar reaction to one extent or another over the years during our participations on boards. . . . I'm not convinced that Kevin "owes" any of us the information that he provided past a point that he no longer wishes to display it. It's rather "internetish" of him to decide to remove it. . . . Perhaps it's time to take another stab at making Jim's "fuquitous", or whatever it was, a word to reckon with... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catesta Posted September 10, 2003 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2003 Ha! I forgot all about that word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alankin Posted September 10, 2003 Report Share Posted September 10, 2003 Well, some of you haven't been reqularly visiting my site, so I've decided to delete it. Hmphh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Johnson Posted September 10, 2003 Report Share Posted September 10, 2003 I visited it yesterday, I promise! You can check my i.p. address! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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