ejp626 Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 This thread is like a rash. I know I shouldn't keep peeking in, but I can't seem to help myself. I guess that is the way with most things on the internet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danasgoodstuff Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 Do the Math has weighed in, not surprisingly they/he's in favor of this bit of (over) conceptualizing... People who don't get the original are perplexing to me, it's like you don't get, well, life. i hardly know where to begin that conversation, or if I even want to... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasing the Korean Posted October 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 The notion that Kind Of Blue was created as a stealth Lounge album, that it was really music for and about affluent white hipsters and/or swingers, is one of the great (and one of the few remaining) unexplored avenues of jazz scholarship. People need to start getting in line for their grants to write their book, because once this gets figured out, EVERYBODY'S gonna want to do one. Miles had already recorded two or three space-age bachelor pad albums with Gil Evans by the time of Kind of Blue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danasgoodstuff Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 One more thing and then, hopefully, I'll be quiet about this - at least one reviewer has greeted this whateverthehellitis by simply reprinting his review of the original (or one of it's many reissues). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 The notion that Kind Of Blue was created as a stealth Lounge album, that it was really music for and about affluent white hipsters and/or swingers, is one of the great (and one of the few remaining) unexplored avenues of jazz scholarship. People need to start getting in line for their grants to write their book, because once this gets figured out, EVERYBODY'S gonna want to do one. Not bad, Jim. Maybe James Gavin and Krin Gabbard could collaborate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xybert Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 Do the Math has weighed in, not surprisingly they/he's in favor of this bit of (over) conceptualizing... People who don't get the original are perplexing to me, it's like you don't get, well, life. i hardly know where to begin that conversation, or if I even want to... I didn't really get the original KOB for years, not until i'd been listening to Miles for a long time. It's one of the reasons that i rail against the conventional wisdom that it's a great default entry point for introducing people to jazz. At least it wasn't in my experience. One more thing and then, hopefully, I'll be quiet about this - at least one reviewer has greeted this whateverthehellitis by simply reprinting his review of the original (or one of it's many reissues). Ha ha, that's the spirit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 The notion that Kind Of Blue was created as a stealth Lounge album, that it was really music for and about affluent white hipsters and/or swingers, is one of the great (and one of the few remaining) unexplored avenues of jazz scholarship. People need to start getting in line for their grants to write their book, because once this gets figured out, EVERYBODY'S gonna want to do one. Miles had already recorded two or three space-age bachelor pad albums with Gil Evans by the time of Kind of Blue. One of them before the Space Age even began! How did THAT happen! Uh oh, Claude, look out for the no oxygen zone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LouisvillePrez Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 I have always liked a joke by Steven Wright that begins: “The other day somebody stole everything in my apartment and replaced it with an exact replica...” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Beat Steve Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 (edited) Do the Math has weighed in, not surprisingly they/he's in favor of this bit of (over) conceptualizing... People who don't get the original are perplexing to me, it's like you don't get, well, life. i hardly know where to begin that conversation, or if I even want to... I didn't really get the original KOB for years, not until i'd been listening to Miles for a long time. It's one of the reasons that i rail against the conventional wisdom that it's a great default entry point for introducing people to jazz. At least it wasn't in my experience. My opinion exactly about that "default". I, for example, got into modern jazz more or less chronologically, starting with the 1945 BIrd and Diz recordings and venturing further and further onwards, easing my way in. My first Miles obviously was BIrth of the Cool (which I found totaly logical from the 1st minute) and I had no problems getting into all his Quintet recordings from the Prestige/Debut era (in fact I'd rate some of these recordings in that "space age bachelor pad" corner too, considering in what settings and moods you tend to listen to them), so what could KOB possibly have done for me when it came to "introducing" me to jazz? Not that I don't "get" KOB - I have listened to it time and again, and like others have mentioned here, I also find that lots of its elements crop up elsewhere in the overall "sound of jazz" from a certain stylistic phase in the evolution of jazz so KOB sort of set the "soundtrack" for part of what came later, but because it is so omnipresent and touted wherever you look and go, I never bothered to get myself a copy - knowing well that whenever I actually wanted one, i would be able to get some reissue/pressing in whatever format suited me at an instant's notice - day or night ... Reminds me of a chance encounter with a German jazz pianist this summer (he has records out though I had never heard of him; friends brought him and his wife along to our summer barbecue). Obviously we got into "talking shop" about jazz at length, and eventually we got to how people get into jazz. Sure enough, when I mentioned that I had never bothered to get a copy of KOB for the above reasons he was sort of baffled because KOB had been one of THE key entry points for him (though by his own statements he has wide ranging tastes and I cannot find traces of KOB in the CD of his he gave me, and he must be in his late 40s so by the time he could have gotten into jazz KOB was not "contemporary" anymore either). Totally different strokes, I guess ... Edited October 30, 2014 by Big Beat Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 Some interesting points scored here, IMO. http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2014/10/when-is-a-miles-davis-record-not-jazz/381983/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quasimado Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 The notion that Kind Of Blue was created as a stealth Lounge album, that it was really music for and about affluent white hipsters and/or swingers, is one of the great (and one of the few remaining) unexplored avenues of jazz scholarship. People need to start getting in line for their grants to write their book, because once this gets figured out, EVERYBODY'S gonna want to do one. Miles had already recorded two or three space-age bachelor pad albums with Gil Evans by the time of Kind of Blue. One of them before the Space Age even began! How did THAT happen! Uh oh, Claude, look out for the no oxygen zone! Are you saying Miles plays on this? Q Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 Not at all, just saying that long before there was the Race To Space, there was the Craving For The Clouds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Berger Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 One more thing and then, hopefully, I'll be quiet about this - at least one reviewer has greeted this whateverthehellitis by simply reprinting his review of the original (or one of it's many reissues). Whoever did that, well-played. I think it's certainly possible for this to simultaneously be bad music and good conceptual art - and I thought that was DTM's point. I am not sure critics of this recording have really addressed this argument. Not at all, just saying that long before there was the Race To Space, there was the Craving For The Clouds. Love this cover. It looks like he is on a giant celestial slip and slide. I wonder whether the detached piano keyboard looked more incongruous to 50s listeners - my first thought was "yeah, NBD, he's holding a Casio keyboard". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 I think it's fair to say that my deliberately not bothering to listen to this is conceptual listening in the interest of having a conceptual opinion. Apples to apples, after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomsMobley Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 Someone should attempt to replicate the MOPDTK version of KOB as exactly as possible and release it, and then someone should try to replicate that version as exactly as possible and release it, and then someone should try to replicate that version etc in to infinity! Whoa. And make YouTube videos of people watching people watching people watching people listening to it, on to infinity. And then do a deluxe box set of all these replications that includes a free webcam so you can watch yourself watch yourself listening and watching to other people listening to and watching it. I mean, you really don't have to leave the house to be entertained these days, the thrills just keep multiplying on their own, and all you have to do is watch from home. Perfect world! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 Hung out with Kevin last night. He's pretty shocked by all the reactions the record is getting. To him it was a fun, subversive project - now, on to the next thing. In his mind in no way is it an attempt to replace or be on an even footing with the original. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Beat Steve Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 (edited) To him it was a fun, SUBVERSIVE project ... Maybe THIS is exactly what bugged some? Those who have put KOB on a sky-high pedestal or in a sacred shrine to be worshipped all year round? Edited October 31, 2014 by Big Beat Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 Yeah, I'm sure. To many a sacred cow; to others, hamburger! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefan Wood Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 To him it was a fun, SUBVERSIVE project ... Maybe THIS is exactly what bugged some? Those who have put KOB on a sky-high pedestal or in a sacred shrine to be worshipped all year round? Nah, to me it feels like a college grade conceptual project. Plus, it is a commodity, and the kickback from me would be, why buy this when there are so many other more interesting works out there to pay attention (and money) to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Beat Steve Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 (edited) Plus, it is a commodity, and the kickback from me would be, why buy this when there are so many other more interesting works out there to pay attention (and money) to? Sure (indeed there ARE many other more interesting works of music to buy), but then you wouldn't be among those who say "You can't do this with (or to) KOB", right? Edited October 31, 2014 by Big Beat Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 I was told that - and this was news to me - all proceeds from Hot Cup releases go to various charities. Interesting, if true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medjuck Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 As a concept they could have announced the album, had friends review it and never actually record it. If anyone wanted to buy it they could have claimed it was OOP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 Then really hip people would say they downloaded it from the 'net. I'm glad they did it. I still am finding it an intriguing listen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 To him it was a fun, SUBVERSIVE project ... Maybe THIS is exactly what bugged some? Those who have put KOB on a sky-high pedestal or in a sacred shrine to be worshipped all year round? Nah, to me it feels like a college grade conceptual project. This. It's not like it's not a funny idea to think about, I mean, lots of things are funny ideas to think about, and play out as inside conceptualalities amongst circles of friends, hell, I live to do shit like that sometimes, but to scale it up to an actual release and shit, that's just too big a scale for that level joke. It's got nothing to do with it being a Sacred Jazz Album or some other lameass notion, it's just...not funny, not as a reality. That's why I don't want/need to hear it, because the joke is not about the reality, it's about the concept, period. Actualizing the concept is, like, a whole other concept, and even then, the joke I take away is that, wow, somebody was dumb enough to actually take this one concept and turn it into something real. And that is a joke that I don't find funny at all, just stupid, Darwin Award-level stupid, you know, like, this is why not everybody is destined to live long and prosper.It's a joke, but the joke's on you, perpetrators, duh. As a concept, yeah, maybe, it depends on the particulars of who's doing the joking and how, but as a reality? You gotta be Andy Kaufman-esque to pull that type of shit off, ok? And Andy Kaufamn was like late Trane - you gotta have master chops, master courage, master vision, and balls the size of Jupiter. and even then, it will not be to everybody's liking. It's funny, though, people would rather think that people are upset about their record because of the musical thing rather than accept that some people think it's just a dumb joke. People are really touchy about having their sense of humor questioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel A Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 I think that all the talk about how flawed this is as a concept is blowing the whole thing out of proportion. You can also choose to believe that this was a just a modest experiment, one that may have its merits but will only appeal to a minority. I chose that way and I'm enjoying life and music as much as ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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