Big Beat Steve

It seems you all misunderstood my point - or else I've misunderstood Stompin's point.- Actually what I tried to point out was that JATP audiences of the late 40s or 50s were NOT all that rowdier than at other venues of similar package concerts in the 50s. Hence my reference to certain concerts leaning towards R&B and the Gene Norman Just Jazz concerts. Of course I have not listened to that actual box set but I have a lot of its contents on other reissues so am relatively familiar with a good deal of the material. I fact I listened to quite a bit of JATP recordings during recent weeks because I (at last) finished reading the Norman Granz biography around New Year. Anyway ... wasn't it so that both the "antics" of some of the musicians building up excitement on stage in the "uptempo" segments of the concerts and the audience reaction were what caused the JATP tours to be labeled "circus" events by some observers? A bit unfairly IMHO. In short, given the context of the times with this kind of concerts, fairly exuberant audiences were not all that uncommon and just part of the setting and times. And comparisons with today's jazz audiences are beside the mark.

Remember the period this music originated in. JAPT still catered to that part of the jazz audience that looked for extrovert entertainment and excitement (sometimes for better or in fact worse) and not (as yet) for wisely pondering, restrained head-nodding to the tones emitted by the MJQ 😉 and their likes. And remember that neither honking saxes on the R&B circuit nor rabble-rousing Gene Norman concerts were far removed in geography or chronology but still relatively recent. Even beyond early JATP concerts from the 40s, some JATP artists such as Flip Phillips thrived on this excitement. And audience reactions probably were even more intense during some European tours. Which did not always improve the "circus" reputations of the JATP tours in some circles. 😉 So I am not sure that "nowadays" would be a valid comparison at all.

A good lead, Niko ... My reflexes of referring to that site (which I consult relatively often elsewheree) seem to have failed me - although the connection was made when the rarity of that session was evoked here some months ago: P.S: I just noticed Mark Stryker did refer to the Red Saunders site in his post in the below topic on 24 December. So he is aware of that site. Wonder if the collecting experts running the site have been able to provide any clues as to where to search further? If not then Apollo 390 seems to be rarer than even some of the rarest 20s Paramounts.

I suppose you have already checked with the Delmark label (that reissued a lot of Apollo recordings) if they have anything in their archives (even after Bob Koester sold the label)?

Honor to whom (leader) honor is due. 😄 Actually this is the photo also used on the Prestige reissue. Which of course can unsettle the clueless: I remember when I bought my copy (as mentioned in my earlier post) and carried it back into the classroom for the afternoon high school classes one class"mate" who probably considered himself enlightened in matters jazz, seeing the cover called out "Walter "FOOTS??" (pronouncing this something like "feets" in mockery, and making fun of Thomas' fancy tie), as if Thomas was even less than an also-ran. (Oh well, what can you expect from someone who in those late 70s considered fusion and jazz rock the beginning and end of all jazz? 😁 Certainly no familiarity with the long-standing lineup of the Cab Calloway orchestra 😆) Seriously, I find it nice to see that Harlequin saw fit to use an appropriate illustration for the record. Which shows that they relied not only on flashy names to grab the dollars of chance buyers but preferred just as much to attract the connoisseurs. Like they (and, above all, their sister label Krazy Kat) did with loads of other reissues of that period that were billed to artists far off the beaten tracks of the "name" suspects. Anyway ...haven't there been more, way more than enough reissues where the large-letter "name" billing on the cover had nothing to do with who actually was the leader (indicating the style of music on the platter) of the recordings reissued? Remember those reissues of small-band swing sessions by Eddie Heywood from the same period (for the Signature label) that on more than one later reissue were billed to "Shelly Manne & Co."? (Just because Manne was the drummer on those Heywood leader dates) And there were tons more like that to confound the easily guiled ... 😉

Not that I would be familiar with even the majority of the Argo output, but among those I have heard my personal favorite is "Swingin' The Loop" featuring Vito Price "and Company" (Argo LP 631). And next in line for me would be "Chubby's Back" by Chubby Jackson (Argo LP 614).

Trying to work "Ken Vail Diary"-style information into the text, maybe? I think for completists it would be interesting to see where he played (and when) at any given moment but admittedly not for everyone. Particularly if the venues and dates are just rattled off and no specific information or anecdotes are provided for at least SOME of the gigs/concerts listed.

The Bean & Ben Sessions (minus the alternates which I guess are not 100% essential) have been around the reissue block quite often. Most of those sessions were reissued on Prestige 7584 in the late 60s as part of their "Prestige Historical Series" and remained in print for quite a long time and must have been distributed fairly well. I bought a copy of its German license pressing (Bellaphon BJS 40122) while I was still in school in the late 70s, and this became one of my (almost desert-island) favorites among early-mid 40s small-band swing. In fact I bought another NM copy ("just in case ...") a couple of years ago cheaply at a clearout sale (and I could have picked up more irresistibly priced secondhand copies through the years). The sessions were then reissued again in the 80s on vinyl on Harlequin HQ2004 (when Interstate reissued a HUGE bunch of Joe Davis masters, filling a LOT of LPs). When it hit the shops here I skipped this one it because I already had all of the master take contents (the one Coleman Hawkins session - of 19 Oct. 1944 - that was not on Prestige 7584 had been reissued on Prestige 7824) but I remember it was available for quite a while too. Secondhand copies are not impossible to find at a good price either. So all these reissues must have sold fairly well.

Would be right up my alley too, particularly the subculture angle beyond pure music making. (The table of contents is promising ...) But at this price? Incidentally, it is already for sale on specialist websites over here too. However, what I found in an online description of the book made me wary ... "In an exploration via the intersections of race, class and gender ... Combining a wide range of archival research and theory, ... argues that the bebop story is an important precedent to the institutional harassment of black-related spaces and culture that continued in the twentieth and twenty-first centuries. This book therefore rewrites the first chapter of the 'classic' subcultural canon ..." New research that steps outside the trodden paths and a new angle to look at history are very welcome, but the above makes me wonder what kind of agenda (that conforms to current trends of thinking, above all) the author is after ... And I have become wary of authors trying too blatantly to make history match their agendas. Listening to his interview on BBC hasn't dispelled my misgivings completely. As for presenting music history in its context of society, from all I have read about Britain (admittedly not nearly all), to me "The Restless Generation - How rock music changed the face of 1950s Britain" by Pete Frame still is a sort of yardstick of how it can be done in an honest, even-handed way. Anyway, I'd find it interesting to learn who the early Black exponents of British Bebop were in the very first post-war years. The West Indians' work AFTER the ill-fated Ken Snakehips Johnson era covered to some extent here? https://www.discogs.com/de/release/7691254-Various-Black-British-Swing

Why? There are those out there who enthuse about Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, Schubert, Purcell, etc., etc. and nobody gives a fuss about how long they have been dead. And no, given the relative and sometimes overriding importance of the concept of "faithfulness to the original/composer's partition" in classical music the modern-day (alive and kicking) "executant performers" (not to mention those who are long gone too yet still are revered) of that music have nowhere near the overriding individualistic importance of the performers in jazz, rock and what have you in those fields of non-classical music. Sadder still for those who listen to classical music, then? So what's wrong or sad with styles of creative music outlasting the lifespans of their performers still striking a chord with many listeners ?

A nice find, and I guess you won't take Mezzrow's clarinet efforts all too seriously ... (Too bad it was not Mezzrow but Ted Lewis who claimed that he made his clarinet talk - which made Eddie Condon retort "it must have said 'please put me back in my case'! " 😁 This would have been fitting for Mezzrow most of the time too. )

"The Panic Is On" triggered my interest in the first place for the zany cover art, of course, but the contents ARE nice. Some 20 years ago I found the three-EP set of this particular album. It lacks one of the tunes of the LP, sadly, but so far I have resisted the urge to shell out for a high-priced LP. If and when I come across the FS vinyl reissue at a really good price that will be fine enough for me.

That pic rather says he played with Chico Hamilton at that age? And Eric Dolphy played with Hamilton too. That might make a difference (style-wise). And at (almost) the other end of the spectrum, he played with Harry James at that age too:

ALSO - yes. On a case by case basis. But I think what was hinted at here (and in reviews I read not terribly long ago but cannot pin down right now) was simply that overall, blues singing was not his real forte compared to his ballads. And of course it also depends on every listener's definition to what extent part of his recorded legacy will be considered either as "blues singing" or as "blues-tinged ballad singing".

So did Paul Robeson. But does that say anthing about the achivements of someone "singing songs" in the field of blues singing? (N.B. Joe Williams singing songs does not make him a songster, though - right? 😉)

If everything you say is accurate (and I have no no reason to believe it is not) then, on a general level, I dread the thought of what "side effects" biographies like this are going to have in the longer run. If they are taken as "the gospel" by those who aren't collectors and fans of the subject of the bio anway but relative newbies or "re-users" with no real in-depth prior knowledge who use the biography as reference then the risk is real that the errors and outright blunders will be repeated and therefore perpetuated in other publications and finish being "carved in stone". To the detriment of "those who know" (and above all, who know better). And who (among those who may have the authority to do so) is going to put matters right in a way that gets widely noticed, then?

I've been under the impression that this evaluation of his work has been repeated more than once ? So it's not quite THAT heretic, it seems. And there is a point to it, IMO.

Discussed not too long ago in another topic IIRC. Sadly, measly playing time (to put it mildly) on these 4 CDs.

As much as I am a fan of Swing (i.e Swing-style and Swing-era jazz) and interested in exploring the whole scope of artists, I never could quite figure out what to make of Billy Butterfield and where he fit into the overall picture of the era when Swing was the thing. To exaggerate a little - among white trumpeters, was he one who really had his heart in blowing "hot" (and may have been hampered by commercial considerations of the A&R men only) or was he apt to drift off into "Charlie Spivak territory" 😉 at any moment? I haven't done a closer check of the recordings where he might pop up as a soloing sideman in the Swing era (Bob Crosby, above all - his stints with Shaw, Goodman and Brown seem to have been brief). But his mid-40s Capitol leader dates do not seem to have been graced with widespread reissues (of his original releases, the track listing of the 10" in the "Classics in Jazz" series looks the most promising). And it IS amazing that Mosaic did not see fit to include even ONE single track of his Capitol leader recordings in their 12-CD "Classic Capitol Jazz Sessions" box set. 🤨 Did they consider him THAT "run of the mill", "neither flesh nor fowl", "commercial" or whatever, even if they had extracted his swingingest sides only? (Including at least a selection of his more swinging affairs would have been a service to collectors because a few of the others they included on that set have been around the reissue block in lots of different guises before) So ... what I did pick up through the years as I came across his leader dates on vinyl are these (which feature non-commercial transciptions from his 40s Capitol period but do mix hot and sweet/sugary and seem to have a few overlaps, FWIW): https://www.discogs.com/de/release/5594803-Billy-Butterfield-The-Uncollected-Billy-Butterfield-And-His-Orchestra-1946 https://www.discogs.com/de/master/1175995-Billy-Butterfield-And-His-Orchestra-1946-Instrumentals-Never-Before-On-Record (Incidentally, when I first became more widely aware of him in a radio show here - in the early 80s - that did a special on him, I found out later that his leader recordings featured on that show were taken from the above Hindsight LP (that was then fairly new on the market) - as if they had none of his other leader dates in their archives) And among the later dates that he participated in, the "Session At Riverside" album on Capitol is certainly worth (re-)exploring too: https://www.discogs.com/de/master/659782-Various-Session-At-Riverside

I'd have said an English-inflected pronounciation is a toss betwen "Boo-di-meer" and "Beoo-di-meer", but anything else is out IMO (or would at least sound very odd).

The appreciations of others may differ but disc 4 (1959 quartet) and, in particular, discs 5 and 6 (1966 orchestra and tentet) of the Joe Castro box set released on Sunnyside have quickly become some of my favorite Teddy Edwards.

It sems like I made a mistake in not adding any smileys. (I am aware of what you allude to. To refresh my memories of the album - which I had heard at a fellow collector's home years ago - I did listen to the album on Youtube again before sending my post.)

The entry for 20 September 1947 in the discography below should provide at least a very partial reply: https://www.jazzdisco.org/this-is-jazz/discography/ Seems like most of what the Rudi Blesh All Star Stompers played on that day remained in the can as of the date of this discography.

I wonder how Adorno is supposed to advance the biography and understanding of a specific MUSICIAN? In a way that could not be stuffed about just as well into a biography of many other musicians from roughly that time frame.