Unissued Coltrane

[John L]

.

14 hours ago, Late said:

OK — so there are no more studio recordings to be issued (unless they're discovered somewhere).

 

Not necessarily.  They pretty much cleaned the Impusle! vaults a long time ago, but the new studio material released in the last few decades comes almost entirely from the Coltrane estate, i.e. tapes that Coltrane kept at home.   I know of no reason to think that there is not any more.   

Edited November 7, 2017 by John L

[bertrand]

Yes, are we sure Ravi does not have the tapes?

[Late]

I hope Ravi's sitting on some unissued material. That'd be great.

In the meantime, a newly remastered "Complete Studio Recordings With Roy Haynes" set would be an excellent addition to the catalog.

[ghost of miles]

19 hours ago, Late said:

OK — so there are no more studio recordings to be issued (unless they're discovered somewhere).

Any unissued live recordings? Particularly of the last band?

Not late-period, but there are always the Frank Tiberi tapes.  Didn't those amount to 86 discs worth of transferred material or some such?  I've heard two different accounts as to why they haven't been released:  (1)  the Coltrane estate wanted too much money to sign off on such a project (2) sound quality isn't good enough.  If it's (2), hard to believe that with modern audio technology they couldn't cull a nice box-set worth of material from those performances.  

[Daniel A]

According to Ratliff's Coltrane book Verve (in other words Universal?) digitized Tiberi's whole Coltrane tape collection, so at least they put in some effort. Too bad nothing could be released. 

[Mark Stryker]

On ‎11‎/‎6‎/‎2017 at 2:27 PM, Late said:

OK — so there are no more studio recordings to be issued (unless they're discovered somewhere).

Any unissued live recordings? Particularly of the last band?

There are definitely notable unissued live recordings from the '60s you would not believe. Some I've heard, some I've just heard about but know they exist. Can't say more. Sorry to be cryptic. Patience.

Edited November 8, 2017 by Mark Stryker

[JSngry]

On 11/7/2017 at 7:41 AM, ghost of miles said:

Not late-period, but there are always the Frank Tiberi tapes.  Didn't those amount to 86 discs worth of transferred material or some such?  I've heard two different accounts as to why they haven't been released:  (1)  the Coltrane estate wanted too much money to sign off on such a project (2) sound quality isn't good enough.  If it's (2), hard to believe that with modern audio technology they couldn't cull a nice box-set worth of material from those performances.  

The story I heard was that it was Tiberi himself who wanted "too much" (i.e. - more than the estate was willing to pay him so that they could get it over to impulse!). He recorded that stuff himself, it had deep meaning to him beyond the monetary, and he felt that if he was going to get money, it should be a LOT of money.

Now, that's just the story I heard.

[Late]

Whenever I see the name Frank Tiberi, I think of Woody Herman's album Giant Steps and its first track, "La Fiesta." My high school jazz band played that arrangement, and it included the transcribed Tiberi solo from the recording. I had to memorize and play that solo. Wasn't easy.

[mjzee]

Mosaic has posted, in their Daily Jazz Gazette on their homepage, 47 minutes of Coltrane and Dolphy in Helsinki on 11/22/61.  Interesting that this concert is not listed in David Wild's discography page (http://www.wildmusic-jazz.com/jcdisc61.htm#611123).  While I am not an expert in unreleased Coltrane, this would seem to be notable.

 

[brownie]

The Coltrane-Dolphy Helsinki concert is CD4 of the 7CD John Coltrane 1961 European Tôur set from Fremaux. Excellent set!

 

[medjuck]

52 minutes ago, brownie said:

The Coltrane-Dolphy Helsinki concert is CD4 of the 7CD John Coltrane 1961 European Tôur set from Fremaux. Excellent set!

 

Does that set also contain the Copenhagen concert where they play Delilah? I came across it on Youtube when I clicked on the link for the Helsinki concert.  

[brownie]

Copenhagen's 'Delilah' is on track 2 disc 3

[mjzee]

[Guy Berger]

I haven't done a thorough check, but I'd guess none of this is new - probably either already released and/or shared on the site which must not be named

[mikeweil]

BTW there is another Chant du Monde box of the 1962 tour (10 CDs):

Edited February 1, 2018 by mikeweil

[medjuck]

Amazon has a 4cd set entitled "So Many Things: The European Tour 1961."  The 4 discs contain almost everything on the first 5 cds of the 7 disc set. It's only $22. 

[John L]

All of this material was out and around on various bootlegs before these box sets appeared.  

[mjzee]

On 1/31/2018 at 9:55 AM, mjzee said:

Mosaic has posted, in their Daily Jazz Gazette on their homepage, 47 minutes of Coltrane and Dolphy in Helsinki on 11/22/61.  Interesting that this concert is not listed in David Wild's discography page (http://www.wildmusic-jazz.com/jcdisc61.htm#611123).  While I am not an expert in unreleased Coltrane, this would seem to be notable.

 

Just to follow up on my earlier post, either Wild is a little behind in updating his discography, or the 11/22/61 date is inaccurate.

[Guy Berger]

@mjzee this is an radio broadcast circulating online on various sites.  l wouldn't be surprised if the mosaic clip actually comes directly or indirectly from Voldemort.

The date is correct.

[mjzee]

2 hours ago, Guy Berger said:

@mjzee this is an radio broadcast circulating online on various sites.  l wouldn't be surprised if the mosaic clip actually comes directly or indirectly from Voldemort.

The date is correct.

Then David Wild needs to update his discography to include more recent finds.

[medjuck]

On 2/3/2018 at 6:18 PM, medjuck said:

Amazon has a 4cd set entitled "So Many Things: The European Tour 1961."  The 4 discs contain almost everything on the first 5 cds of the 7 disc set. It's only $22. 

Listening to this  I was reminded of George Crater's comment "If I hear John Coltrane play My Favorite Things one more time I'm going to strangle Mary Martin." 

[Late]

2026 is slowly approaching. The Coltrane Centennial.

Ravi has 4.5 years to scour the attic and look under the bed for mislabeled reel-to-reels!

Careful, those contain the September 1965 Village Gate recordings with Carlos Ward! 

[bertrand]

Some of the very last Coltrane studio dates are unissued and presumed lost, I guess in the Universal Fire. But did Coltrane take copies home that Ravi might have? That is how the extra Love Supreme material was found.

If I understand the story correctly, Blue World was a rogue session neither Impulse nor Bob Thiele knew about, but Rudy was in on the secret. That is why the tapes were being safely preserved in the Canadian cold rather than tossed with the others into the Universal bonfire. Could other artists have also done secret sessions for other labels? Several clues point to the possibility that Lee Morgan may have made some rogue sessions for Roulette in the 60s. My first attempt at looking into this did not pan out - the vault most likely to have Lee Morgan Roulette dates only had the half session that was released. This does not mean the sessions do not exist, just that if tapes survived, they are not where they should be.

[clifford_thornton]

I would like to hear the quintet with Marion Brown. Wonder if a safety exists or if it's torched...

[Late]

7 hours ago, bertrand said:

... just that if tapes survived, they are not where they should be.

In that case, let's hope there are 1966/67 Coltrane reels NOT where they should be!