Bird on Savoy, Dial

[GA Russell]

I am interested in buying CDs of Charlie Parker's master takes for Savoy and Dial.

I am not particularly interested in multiple alternate takes and false starts.

Can you recommend some things currently available which sound good?

[T.D.]

I purchased the JSP box Charlie Parker: A Studio Chronicle 1940-1948 some years ago.

This has minimal track duplication and cost isn't high. I don't know if the provenance is entirely kosher (JSP certainly appears to be a PD reissue specialist). Can't comment on comparative sound quality, but it doesn't sound outright bad IMO.

Also bought the complete live Savoy.

Definitely a legitimate issue. Can't comment on comparative SQ; certainly it isn't audiophile, but I didn't have high sonic expecations.

Edited March 8, 2020 by T.D.

[Brad]

Legitimate in what way? Authorization to use? Sound not pristine?

If you wanted studio, why not purchase the complete savoy dial. You can probably find it in the secondary market.

Sorry, didn’t see GAs post. The alt takes are important but you can skip them if you don’t like them. I’d rather have them than not. 

Edited March 8, 2020 by Brad

[Chuck Nessa]

Savoy issued a master takes package of the Savoy and Dial material. Find one and buy it.

[J.A.W.]

3 minutes ago, Chuck Nessa said:

Savoy issued a master takes package of the Savoy and Dial material. Find one and buy it.

It's a Savoy 3CD-set and unfortunately out of print. Chuck is right, get it if you find one - it's this one:

 

[ghost of miles]

I third Chuck and Hans' recommendation--the absolute best way to pick up that material.

[Brad]

If you’re just looking for an intro to Bird, I got my start years ago with Yardbird Suite, which also includes his Verve material. I progressed from there. 

[GA Russell]

Thanks for the suggestions!

I already have the Savoy Live box and the Complete Verve box.

I have considered the "Best of Savoy & Dial" disc.  If you guys think the fidelity is good enough, I guess that is my best option.
https://www.amazon.com/Best-Complete-Savoy-Studio-Recordings/dp/B000067FUO/

Now I see that the box Chuck and Hans mention is available for streaming at Amazon.
https://www.amazon.com/Complete-Savoy-Dial-Master-Takes/dp/B00006H6A6/

[jlhoots]

1 hour ago, J.A.W. said:

It's a Savoy 3CD-set and unfortunately out of print. Chuck is right, get it if you find one - it's this one:

 

Yes!!

[felser]

I think a little patience will bring you the one above at a decent price.  Median selling price on Discogs is $25.49, and they go dirt cheap on ebay, just went for under $10 this past week.

 

Edited March 9, 2020 by felser

[Gheorghe]

11 hours ago, J.A.W. said:

It's a Savoy 3CD-set and unfortunately out of print. Chuck is right, get it if you find one - it's this one:

 

That´s what I have ! This is the most enjoyable Version, you can listen to all the master takes in a chronological order. So you really have the most representative Studio work of Charlie Parker from 1944-1948.

[Rooster_Ties]

13 hours ago, felser said:

I think a little patience will bring you the one above at a decent price.  Median selling price on Discogs is $25.49, and they go dirt cheap on ebay, just went for under $10 this past week.

Set up an automated search on eBay, and it'll alert you whenever a new copy is being sold.  Bet you'll snag a decently priced on inside ot 10 weeks.

[sonnymax]

17 hours ago, GA Russell said:

Now I see that the box Chuck and Hans mention is available for streaming at Amazon.
https://www.amazon.com/Complete-Savoy-Dial-Master-Takes/dp/B00006H6A6/

It's available to stream on Spotify as well.

[jazz man]

If I'm looking for more than just the master takes, is the 8CD Savoy and Dial box preferred? Or are there better discs that have the complete Savoy and Dial sides separately?

I know there's this set for the Dial sides on Spotlite, for instance, that I've heard good things about.

 

[jazzbo]

If you want to get it all in one whack, that set is probably your best bet. There are other releases I think might sound a bit better on cd, for example all the Bird material that Savoy/Denon Japan released I personally prefer for Savoy, but that's a lot of discs not assembled in a set, and does not have the Dial material. The Spotlite might be the best way to go for Dial.

In my opinion now, decades after scurrying and collecting the material, the differences in most of the releases is not VAST and for listening and studying and enjoying Bird most will suffice. . . with that Atlantic/Savoy set probably the most sensible score.

Edited 21 hours ago by jazzbo

[Late]

4 hours ago, jazz man said:

I know there's this set for the Dial sides on Spotlite, for instance, that I've heard good things about.

The Spotlite set is warmly recommended. I like the Japanese edition.

Purchase (for now) right here.

[Big Beat Steve]

Being a vinyl man in this respect, I am rounding up one by one the 6 "Charlie Parker on Dial" LPs on Spotlite. So I'd second the recommendations for the 4-CD set which more or less duplicate the original LPs. Particularly at that price for U.S. buyers.
However, personally adn after all these years I am still not sure if I'd want to listen to that many alternates for most of the tracks each time, so I still hang on to my "master takes" versions as well. And would do so for the Savoys as well. There are moments when the music still strikes you most intensely when you listen to the tunes in their original release context. 

[John L]

Bird is one case where also having the alternates makes a lot of sense.  Bird makes different takes sound very different.   I also enjoy very much hearing Bird do successive takes of the same track in a row.  For example, it is extremely rewarding to move with Bird as he spontaneously composes  Bird of Paradise through three takes starting with All the Things You Are.  

[Big Beat Steve]

If you are in an analyzing and exploring mood, no doubt about the usefulness of alternate takes for direct or successive comparison.
But there ARE other moments in someone's listening experience, just like there are those (apparently quite numerous) out there who seem to be more and more dissatisfied with the chronological "complete" reissue packages that abound these days and re-burn themselves their own CDs in the exact programming order of the original LPs ... 

Edited 5 hours ago by Big Beat Steve

[JSngry]

Make a Bird compilation of only alternates, one per tune.

Pretty good record!

[Big Beat Steve]

Along the lines of "The Alternate Goodman" on Phontastic? 

Except that this time there should be an alternate of EVERY master take ever released?

[JSngry]

I would wager that an album assembled in such a way would, for Parker novices, in no way betray the takes as alternates (at least on Parker's part).

[Big Beat Steve]

I would not wager against this. 

 

But I would NOT wager either that the discographically inclined among the reviewers, in particular, or other more knowledgeable ones would not cry out scandal for "upsetting the commonly accepted wisdom". 
"Hey, that's an alternate, not the master, and it doesn't say so in the notes. Sloppy compiling! Horror of horrors!" Has happened often enough, hasn't it? 

 

Edited 1 hour ago by Big Beat Steve

[JSngry]

Point just being that a person who buys the complete sets but doesn't want to listen to consecutive takes of the same song doesn't have to, and at no loss of quality.

Bird is kinda special that way.

[Big Beat Steve]

Certainly, and agreed about a set made up ONLY of one alternate of each would not mean a loss of quality overall (and no loss of listening enjoyment, particularly to newbies with "fresh ears"). But taking this idea one step further, this would require identifying them as such anyway. Because the MASTER takes still are out there.

So what would we have, then? 
- A potential set of master takes (which already exists but will continue to exist)
- A potential set of alternates (ie. one alternate of each). Certainly an interesting package. 
But how to call this? "Bird - The complete preferred alternates"??  Hmmm ... 
(Because like I said I see no way of not labeling them as alternates at all, unless you're fine with muddling it all up ...)

I'd not venture a guess about what the "typical suspects" among the Birdophiles would say, then. Particularly those who'd clamor again to go the whole way when digging into the alternates. And as the discographies tell us that NOT EACH Bird tune recorded on Dial and Savoy has at least three alternates, what would be next? How to label them NOT as something like "The complete alternate alternates" if you want to avoid resorting to something like "The connoisseur leftovers" or "Scraping the Bird barrel" or ...?