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romualdo

Albert Ayler 5LP set from Elemental for RSD (April 23)

49 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, Dmitry said:

I went to my local shop, and paid them for the set. The man said he will be ordering it, but if it falls through, he will give my money back. I haven't bought any RSD titles before. Does this sound kosher to you?

My guess is your local shop is now going to order an additional copy and if it comes they’ll sell it, if it doesn’t their copy will sell immediately to you. This is the benefit of having a good relationship with your local shop. 

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Thank you.

When I called the store, he went on a RSD web page for record dealers, and told me he'd order the set from the distributor. He told me the price for it, and I paid. How does this RSD work? The record stores order titles they think their customers will want, based on their knowledge of their customer base? No prior reservations are allowed? For instance, had I gone to the store on the Record Store Day, how would I know that they carried the titles I wanted? 

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Based on my experience the shops order what they would like to sell from a set list and are basically given an allocation, sometimes just one or two copies. Then it is a question of queuing up on the day and hoping that you are near enough to the front to snag what you want. Failing that, order online from stores after 6pm and hope that someone still has what you are looking for in stock.

Many stores give details of what they will be selling in online news before the day.

Edited by sidewinder

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19 minutes ago, Dmitry said:

Thank you.

When I called the store, he went on a RSD web page for record dealers, and told me he'd order the set from the distributor. He told me the price for it, and I paid. How does this RSD work? The record stores order titles they think their customers will want, based on their knowledge of their customer base? No prior reservations are allowed? For instance, had I gone to the store on the Record Store Day, how would I know that they carried the titles I wanted? 

You wouldn't know, that's the "fun" of RSD it's the pull factor to the physical shop on the chance, as described by Sidewinder, that they have title you want that was the initial premise of the day. To get folk to visit shops again. It's become just a mega marketing jamboree now with labels like Resonance doing these ridiculous release runs to exploit the day.

I've always managed to buy what I want online, at standard prices, after the online sales curfew is lifted. Never queued in person.

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5 hours ago, bertrand said:

I feel the same way.

It might seem unfair to fans of the music, but isn't the point of RSD also to make people visit record stores, thus helping them survive? Not sure whether there's any connection between the print run and the overall purpose of RSD, but that's what I'm thinking when I hear about "limited quantities". 

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RSD is nothing but flippers these days which is why it’s frustrating if you want to get a specific title. I’ve managed to get most of what I want afterwards online usually with no or minimal markup. I think the Dr.John Herbs release last year was the most I’ve paid over retail and it was about 15% which is worth it to avoid the masses to me. 

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1 hour ago, mjazzg said:

You wouldn't know, that's the "fun" of RSD it's the pull factor to the physical shop on the chance, as described by Sidewinder, that they have title you want that was the initial premise of the day. To get folk to visit shops again. It's become just a mega marketing jamboree now with labels like Resonance doing these ridiculous release runs to exploit the day.

I've always managed to buy what I want online, at standard prices, after the online sales curfew is lifted. Never queued in person.

The queuing is actually not so bad, at least at my regular haunts. The usual batch of local regulars to ‘shoot the breeze and catch up’. Assuming that is that the weather is behaving itself and not raining. The only issue with the queuing is that other shoppers wonder what is going on and look at you as if you are a zoo exhibit/curio !

I draw the line at queuing at 5am/6am as in some stores though - not that keen !

With the 500/750 runs on the Resonance titles no doubt we will be very lucky if we ever see them in the stores over here. Given this, I’ll be happy with the CDs - and at a third of the price too.

1 hour ago, Daniel A said:

It might seem unfair to fans of the music, but isn't the point of RSD also to make people visit record stores, thus helping them survive? Not sure whether there's any connection between the print run and the overall purpose of RSD, but that's what I'm thinking when I hear about "limited quantities". 

Yes, I think there is something too that. At least one store that I know has commented that RSD keeps them solvent for the rest of the year.

Edited by sidewinder

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Ok, check this out:

 

per the comments of "stevetintweiss":

I posted this clip on my fb timeline when it was first published in issue #5 of the Fondation Maeght newsletter. This excerpt is from the beginning of our first concert 25 July 1970. I don’t know if it is even part of the full documentary film “Albert Ayler: Le Dernier Concert” by Jean-Michel Meurice which covers mostly the second concert two nights later after Call Cobbs arrived. Never shown here, but was across venues in Europe in the seventies. It is in the Maeght archives.

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Not sure if this has discussed much here but the recent changes regarding reporting Paypal/Ebay sales transactions (for accounts collecting $600 or more) will definitely put a damper on the flipping business.  Depending on the volume the flipper does, they will have to account for a 30% cut in taxes of their profits and that will raise the prices and probably dampen demand.  We shall see.

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Albert Ayler (RSD release) = 600 copies
Bill Evans (RSD release) = 4000 copies
Mariah Carey (RSD release) = 7050 copies

I feel bad for Mariah. She's a huge Albert Ayler fan, and will likely have to sell some of her own RSD releases (thankfully there are 7050 copies) in order to purchase just one Ayler RSD release. And just when we thought celebrities had it easy.

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RSD is for vinyl only, right? I assume I can the Mingus Live at Ronnie Scott's (my title) online later?

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Yes, April 30, a week later.

Edited by jazzbo

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On 2/19/2022 at 6:26 AM, Dmitry said:

I went to my local shop, and paid them for the set. The man said he will be ordering it, but if it falls through, he will give my money back. I haven't bought any RSD titles before. Does this sound kosher to you?

that's not how it's supposed to run.

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1 hour ago, clifford_thornton said:

that's not how it's supposed to run.

Now, with all of yours help I've figured it isn't. I'll see if anything comes out of it.

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On 2/19/2022 at 0:48 PM, Michael said:

Not sure if this has discussed much here but the recent changes regarding reporting Paypal/Ebay sales transactions (for accounts collecting $600 or more) will definitely put a damper on the flipping business.

Puts a damper on any regular joe trying to resell records - or any collectibles (hell, or really anything of volume) - online. The $600 threshold is way too low and is pretty ridiculous. 

On 2/18/2022 at 0:14 PM, clifford_thornton said:

I assume it is because the pressing plants are so backed up

I think this is part of it, but labels probably run the numbers on product sales and peg each artist with the optimal price point for turning the quickest and highest profit. Hence Evans and Mariah get more copies than Ayler. 

 

I appreciate what Resonance does as I love their Rollins in Holland and some other Evans and Montgomery sets they did. But none of their LPs are AAA, so the runs on these things don't make much sense to me. Most of their titles are on CD and/or streaming platforms. No need to break necks or wallets to get these things. 

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1 hour ago, Dub Modal said:

Puts a damper on any regular joe trying to resell records - or any collectibles (hell, or really anything of volume) - online. The $600 threshold is way too low and is pretty ridiculous. 

In Europe, the anti money-laundry regulations require payment service providers to monitor money transfers and to ask for receipts if there are larger amounts or suspicious circumstances. If you are doing legitimate business, there will be such receipts. I will confess that I don't know exactly what the new eBay/PayPal requirements are, but I have more than once heard of suspicions that used record transactions are used as a cover up for money laundry. 

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Just now, Daniel A said:

I will confess that I don't know exactly what the new eBay/PayPal requirements are, but I have more than once heard of suspicions that used record transactions are used as a cover up for money laundry. 

The entire collectibles/antique/art market is certainly rife with money laundering and fraud. Recent news here in the US documented how certain comic book conduits were fronts for big money collectors/dealers. Now, LP flippers make some cash, but it's nothing compared to the last 3 to 5 years of comic books. Those transactions make $400 Music Matters Blue Note reissue flips look like peanuts. 

US taxpayers now have to file 1099s (a certain tax form) on amounts over $600 collected through digital transfers. There's ways around that of course, and a certain amount of tax evasion goes on by regular folks all the time relating to similar gains, but a substantial portion of online sales are going to be affected by this new requirement. People who thought they had a good side hustle via online resale apps are going to get popped for amounts that make those transactions negligible in terms of any real economic benefit. 

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Well, if that indeed is the new law of the land in USA, good luck to the European and Japanese collectors buying records on the interwebs. The sales of rare albums will move back to the record fairs and record stores, where they were before eBay took over.

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600 copies will go fast. 

Edited by Hardbopjazz

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Posted (edited)

On 2/18/2022 at 10:00 PM, romualdo said:

I suppose this "upcoming" (back in late 2020) Hat Hut release is now redundant

Screen Shot 2022-02-19 at 12.53.11 pm copya.jpg

Not interested in this boxset. Loooove this pic of Ayler/concept on the cover by HAT. But after Albert was (forced) to fire Donald, there was a major piece missing in his music at this period for me. Impulse though, after they tried to portray Albert as some sort of majestic hippie (like some Rasputin gypsy) but he fought on and none of his music suffered ( severely) thereafter; he didn't strike me as radio friendly either, which was their aim. Impulse did him fine nonetheless. Drove one of the most ingenious minds in the dirt. My opinion of course.  

Edited by Holy Ghost

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one of the other members here lined up for me in Orlando, FL for the Ayler LP set - here's his story (btw, This set wasn't made available in Australia). Thanks again Dan.

He'd lined up previously (Dolphy LP set) for me so this wasn't his first experience

"If you really want to know it was different from last time and not as satisfying. Over the years since I waited in the dark for the Eric Dolphy set the record store has been overwhelmed with customers. Hundreds are showing up now with some in line late on Friday! Starting this year they implemented a reservation system which you applied on line to them to get an entry time. I knew nothing of this until I telephoned them on Friday. The reservation list was full, starting at 9am and customers without a reservation (like me) could enter the store at 1pm. I got there about 12 hoping for a relaxation of the rules but not going to happen. Actually entered the store about 1:15pm. Store was jammed with people, the jazz section was tucked away in a corner since most people are not interested in jazz. There were several Albert Ayler LPs in the Jazz section but not the 5-LP set. I was suspicious that box sets were displayed elsewhere. I  got ahold of a very helpful person who looked all over the store where box sets were under the counters. Still no luck. Next she told me to fill out a form which listed all the RSD items, where I checked the Ayler box. I then handed the form to a person in a back room where most box sets were stored and customers not allowed. Miracle: about 10 minutes later I was handed the box set. I then proceeded to the front of the store where the check-out line started. After about 30 minutes standing in line I was able to pay and leave. Last inconvenience- there was only one person operating the register! There should have been 2 or 3. What a day! I spent about 1 hour in the store, not counting the wait outside. When I left there still was a long line waiting to enter the store. I am happy to have done it and will do in the future, but more efficiently! " 

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I ended up getting the LP from an eBay seller a few weeks after release here in the UK for list price. It took ages to arrive and I was convinced it was a scam but a bona fide Tyler set arrived in immaculate condition. The music was all new to me and is just wonderful. The weird bits (Mary Parks) make sense when heard in the context of the concert program. Love it.

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I got the cd version when it was released and I too love it. So glad to have it all (had a few discs before) and in such great sound. 

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I bought also a CD set and I'm more than happy. It's and oldschool box, not a cheap clamshell one, but with hard cardboard wrapping, cut-out on side, thick booklet and two double digipack inside.

And the music - stellar. Maybe the first half of first set is a bit hesitant, but the fire stars with "Ghosts" on CD2. The second set is slightly different, because of a piano, but I think it makes the music more accessible.

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